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1 year and still tired!
#91
RE: 1 year and still tired!
(06-28-2017, 05:54 PM)robysue Wrote: quick note: I'm on the road and won't have internet the next couple of days except intermittently. Will post a response when I have the time and the internet.

thanks and be safe. Sleep-well
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#92
RE: 1 year and still tired!
(06-28-2017, 04:55 PM)ajack Wrote: I can tell you my story with the FFM. I have an A/C on, so it's warm dry air, this time of year down here. I have my humidity set to 5, the machine max is 6. That works for me, unless I get a large leak and have more volume of air passing through the mask. Leaks don't wake me up anymore and I then I awake in the morning with a dry mouth (I'm a mouth breather) I can tell by how much water was used, to what the leaks were like

I think your CA would settle anyway, it was just your system getting use to you getting the cpap working. 13 is fine, you could set 12 If you want to limit the variations of pressure, You could even use cpap mode and a manual fixed pressure of 12 with a bit of flex for awhile. Several people have posted here, saying a fixed pressure works better for them.
"ajack" how long have you been on c-pap? Will try tape again tonight.,till I get this mask thing under control.  On your F20 do you use the memory foam? If so how do you like it? Humidifier set to 3 and I can go to 5. will bump it up to 4 tonight.
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#93
RE: 1 year and still tired!
I started last year on a chinese resmart. I found this forum early this year and haven't looked back. It really was a wealth of information. I found reading old threads, a problem being worked through to a solution was a good way. Also the non invasive ventilation NIV videos on youtube are easy to digest.

I use the silicon cussion in the f-20, I've tired 4 other ffm and so far the f20 os the better.

This is the one from last night, showing the leak line. The nasal mask doesn't work with me.
http://i.imgur.com/jJrSiHv.png
mask fit http://www.apneaboard.com/wiki/index.php...ask_Primer
For auto-cpap, from machine data or software. You can set the min pressure 1 or 2cm below 95%. Or clinicians commonly use the maximum or 95% pressure for fixed pressure CPAP, this can also be used for min pressure.
https://aasm.org/resources/practiceparam...rating.pdf
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#94
RE: 1 year and still tired!
(06-29-2017, 02:13 AM)ajack Wrote: I started last year on a chinese resmart. I found this forum early this year and haven't looked back. It really was a wealth of information. I found reading old threads, a problem being worked through to a solution was a good way. Also the non invasive ventilation NIV videos on youtube are easy to digest.

I use the silicon cussion in the f-20, I've tired 4 other ffm and so far the f20 os the better.

This is the one from last night, showing the leak line. The nasal mask doesn't work with me.
http://i.imgur.com/jJrSiHv.png

Numbers look great. I assume you are sleeping well. I forgot to tape last night. You can see its an issue on my chart.

[Image: EfjhIc4t.png]
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#95
RE: 1 year and still tired!
One of the nasal guys will need to help you with that. I tried the nasal for a few nights and gave up, but I was leaking a lot more than you. The best I've got to offer is Philips has a different way of showing the leaks, they show the natural venting and the unwanted leaks together. resmed only show the unwanted leaks.

Just a guess, looking at the chart is that 25 is the normal venting leak and your high was 60 minus the 25= 35. So it isn't a massive leak. I would have a target of under 40 total and it looks like you would exceed that 3 times. I wouldn't be that concerned.

The AHI numbers are nice Smile

I'm on valdoxan to help set my circadian rhythms, my sleep was terrible. A lot better now.
mask fit http://www.apneaboard.com/wiki/index.php...ask_Primer
For auto-cpap, from machine data or software. You can set the min pressure 1 or 2cm below 95%. Or clinicians commonly use the maximum or 95% pressure for fixed pressure CPAP, this can also be used for min pressure.
https://aasm.org/resources/practiceparam...rating.pdf
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#96
RE: 1 year and still tired!
(06-29-2017, 02:55 PM)ajack Wrote: One of the nasal guys will need to help you with that. I tried the nasal for a few nights and gave up, but I was leaking a lot more than you. The best I've got to offer is Philips has a different way of showing the leaks, they show the natural venting and the unwanted leaks together. resmed only show the unwanted leaks.

Just a guess, looking at the chart is that 25 is the normal venting leak and your high was 60 minus the 25= 35. So it isn't a massive leak. I would have a target of under 40 total and it looks like you would exceed that 3 times. I wouldn't be that concerned.

The AHI numbers are nice Smile

I'm on valdoxan to help set my circadian rhythms, my sleep was terrible. A lot better now.

O.K. Thanks  I was really worried about the leaks. I still want to try with tape for the dry mouth awakenings. Do you get dry mouth with a F.F.M.?
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#97
RE: 1 year and still tired!
The big 3 leaks still need fixing and tape may do it.
With FFM, I only get a dry mouth if I get bad leaks, other than that it's fine.
mask fit http://www.apneaboard.com/wiki/index.php...ask_Primer
For auto-cpap, from machine data or software. You can set the min pressure 1 or 2cm below 95%. Or clinicians commonly use the maximum or 95% pressure for fixed pressure CPAP, this can also be used for min pressure.
https://aasm.org/resources/practiceparam...rating.pdf
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#98
RE: 1 year and still tired!
(06-28-2017, 12:43 PM)Scott C. Wrote: "robysue" here is a zoom in when I woke up with dry mouth. Looks to me the pressure was increasing at the time as you thought.

[Image: HPLnVWkl.png]
That pressure increase looks like it is just the PR Search algorithm kicking in. Yes, you woke up during this "sawtooth" pressure increase with a dry mouth. That may mean that you are more sensitive to the PR Search algorithm than most. Or it could just be that more air was getting into your mouth even before the wake ...

And keep in mind that it's possible to have dry mouth problems even with a near perfect leak line: Dry mouth is caused by air getting into the mouth.  If that excess air does NOT escape through your lips, then that excess air will NOT increase the leak numbers.  One way that excess air can leave the mouth is through swallowing, which can lead to aerophagia problems. So it's worth asking: On bad "dry mouth" nights, do you do more burping and/or farting than normal the next day?

Quote:You can view my previous charts on this thread.
In going back through this thread, what I've noticed is that your leak graphs seem pretty good with or without taping.

There's evidence of a bit of mouth breathing on 6/21 between 3:30 and 4:30, but the leaks are not large enough to be flagged as "Large Leaks".

There may be a bit of very minor mouth breathing on 6/23. Or this could be leaks triggered by your facial muscles relaxing enough to slightly break the mask seal.

Yes, there's an official Large Leak on 6/25. And the leaks on this night are worse than the other nights you've posted data for. Any ideas on what was different on this night? Did you tape or not tape on this night?  It could just be this was a "bad night". It is unreasonable to expect every night will be a "great night" in terms of leak data or AHI data or overall sleep quality. Sometimes we just have a "bad night" that comes out of nowhere for no particular reason.

Quote:( there are 2 charts on this post, first is zoomed in on a awakening event. 2nd on is zoomed all the way out to show AHI graph with interesting flat spots with no events. And the leak rate graph with no tape.

[Image: FDF72zFl.png]
This leak line is ugly, but still within acceptable levels. In other words, the efficacy of your therapy and the accuracy of your data are unlikely to be affected by leaks that look like this.

However, the question is whether the leaks are waking you up. And that's still unclear to me.

How many wakes do you remember each night?


Quote:"ajake" Here is last nights chart without mouth tape. I changed the max. pressure to 13 because I thought it might help with dry mouth via You tube. Will stay at these settings for a few days, still messing with humidity. Currently it is set to adaptive. And 3 on main menu. Also the CAs have come down.
I still think you are changing too many things at the same time with too little time between the changes.  (I know I sound like a nag here.)

Here's the thing: If you are making multiple changes (humidity + pressure + taping/not taping etc) all at the same time and things get slightly better ---or if things get WORSE after a change--- there is no way to easily determine which change is responsible for making things better or worse.

And here's another thing: It's useful to know what problem you are trying to fix with the changes you are making.  In your case, the questions are:

1) What are you wanting to accomplish by reducing or eliminating your CAs when the number of CAs is already very, very low?

2) What are you wanting to accomplish by trying to eliminate the last bit of leaking?

The title of the thread is "Still tired after a year."   Have you considered that things other than sleep apnea/CPAP can lead to continued fatigue?  In other words, there comes a point when the data is good, (or good enough), but the sleep remains bad. When that happens, it's important to consider whether there are other things going on that might be leading to bad sleep.   Which is why I keep coming back to non-CPAP things:

A) How would you define a good night's sleep?  

B) How many wakes do you remember in a typical night?  Are most of them related to the dry mouth problem?

C) How much actual sleep do you think you get each night?
Questions about SleepyHead?  
See my Guide to SleepyHead
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#99
RE: 1 year and still tired!
(06-28-2017, 12:43 PM)Scott C. Wrote: ( there are 2 charts on this post, first is zoomed in on a awakening event. 2nd on is zoomed all the way out to show AHI graph with interesting flat spots with no events. And the leak rate graph with no tape.

[Image: FDF72zFl.png]
Those "flat spots without events" on the AHI graph are neither unusual nor interesting.

The AHI graph is essentially useless in understanding your data. It goes up by 1 for each event you have (when you are having events and that event is NOT deleted from the AHI graph until it is a full hour old.

In other words, if you have 5 events in a 15 minute period and nothing else for rest of the night, you will see the AHI graph increase from 0 to 5 in a 15-minute period. And then it will sit at 5 for another 45 minutes. It will go down to 4 as soon as the first event turns one hour old. It will go down to 3 as soon as the second event turns one hour old. It will go down to 2 as soon as the third even turns one hour old. It will go down to 1 as soon as the fourth event turns one hour old. It will go down to zero 75 minutes after the first event occurred, because at that point, the fifth event (which occurred 15 minutes after the first one) will finally be one hour old.
Questions about SleepyHead?  
See my Guide to SleepyHead
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RE: 1 year and still tired!
Thank you "robysue" for sharing your thoughts an no you don't sound like a nag. You sound like you know what you are talking about.
The humidifier seems to stay the same no matter what I put the number on. I think when it's on adaptive it picks it own level. So i don't think its a factor. You are right I am trying different settings. I figured I'd find one setting to stick with for a while. This was my experimental week culminating with last nights settings
Min-pressure 10, max-pressure 10, Auto and Flex 3, and mouth tape. Thinking the pressure changes might be waking me up several times during the night. I would say 5-7 per night that I can remember.

Here is last nights chart. What graph would you suggest instead of A.H.I. There is nothing in my snore graph.

[Image: ff3084cl.png]
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