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3B Luna 2 Auto - Help with Data and Its Meaning
#1
3B Luna 2 Auto - Help with Data and Its Meaning
My dad is just starting treatment for sleep apnea.  We were told that he was going to get a AirSense 11, but the DME gave him a Luna 2 Auto instead.  No time now to argue with DME, it is more important to begin his treatment while he is still agreeable to trying it.   He's been using it for a few days and is willing to try it a few days more.   My husband and I both have ResMed devices.   Trying to figure the 3B Luna 2 instead has left us with questions that we can't find answers to using online search.   We're hoping some Luna 2 users on this forum can point us in the right direction.

1) Auto On and Auto off
We've been able to find the clinicians manual and successfully enabled the Auto On feature.   We turned the "Auto Off" to "ON", but is doesn't appear to be working.   How does Auto off work on the Luna compared to a AirSense 10?  What might we be doing wrong?  The Leak Alarm is set to "OFF"

2) User Compliance Data
We are able to access the iCode compliance data with the 3B Luna QR app on our iPhones.   We can't find a good explanation of what it actually means.  And what is the difference between the data using QR vs QR+?

compliance time 12:11;    12 hours 11 minutes of usage?   Does usage mean machine run time or time while patient is actively using it?

p95 (cmH2O) 9.0;   Pressure below 9.0 for 95% of the time and above 9.0 for the other 5% of the time?

Mean pressure (cmH2O) 7.5;  average treatment pressure is 7.5 CWP?

AHI 1.0 - happy because it is less than 5,  especially since it was 22 AHI without treatment during his sleep study
CAI 0.6 - not sure , How does Luna 2 interpret events compared to Resmed or Philips?

Leak Time (>90LPM)  00:38   Does this mean his mask leaking more than 90 L/min for 38 minutes?  Why such a high threshold?  On a very bad day, my leaks don't exceed 33-35 L/min.

The device screen is a little different  
Period  1 day
Compliance 12 hours
P95 9.0 cmH2O
P Mean 7.5 cmH2O
AHI 1.1
SNI <1.0  (what is SNI?)
Leak 9.0 LPM  (How does this correlate to Leak Time above?)

3) More detailed data?
I know that Oscar doesn't support Luna.   Is this device mostly a brick or are there options for coaxing more info out of it?  It has an SD card..   I saw a note somewhere here about BMC REsmart software but can't find it again and do not know if it applicable or what data charts/graphs it could give us.   It would be helpful to know when each segment treatment starts and stops to compare to Fitbit REM and deep sleep data.

4) Profile question
Does "Remote avatar URLs have been disabled by the forum administrator. " mean I can't upload my own photo?
Also, I used my Dad's info for the profile info instead of my own so that we can focus on him.

Thank you for taking the time for read this.  Even more thanks for any advice.
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#2
RE: 3B Luna 2 Auto questions, Auto Off, but especially data analysis
Here is an out of the box thought.

Record your settings.
Put your dad's settings into your ResMed and let him use it for 1 night then post the OSCAR results here.

That said his AHI is excellent. This I doubt we would see much. Flow limitations are the biggest question as they can be disruptive.

You may want to hold this swap concept until he is having some obvious trouble.
,,,
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#3
RE: 3B Luna 2 Auto questions, Auto Off, but especially data analysis
Gideon,  Great creative idea.  I'll hold off for now.  We need to keep things simple for my dad.

My mom said that my dad was snoring last night.   They sleep better in separate rooms, but they have company and needed Dad's room for them.   Also, his mask was misaligned part of the night and making the whistling noises.    Plus the mask was too confusing to put on after using the bathroom in the middle of the night, so he didn't put it back on until it woke my mom up.    The auto shut off isn't working, so the noise woke my mom up.      I don't know if he's been snoring since starting CPAP.    He has been getting good sleep until last few nights.   

What we really need a chart of when he puts on and takes off his mask each time at night.   

I'll post more useful questions after Mom shares the compliance and screen data.  Hopefully there will be someway to figure out when the machine is on, but his mask is off.

About auto shut off.. I tried a P10 last night and my auto shutoff didn't work either.   I think I had the mask setting on my AirSense to nose pillow, instead of my F10.  But all have to double check.
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#4
Help understanding data, exp open mouth
            My dad is a new cpap user with a Luna 2.  He is using a P10 mask and we're reasonable sure that his mouth is usually open.  He has an appointment tomorrow to try to find another mask that works for him.   We tried Sominifix on Monday and I don't see much difference on the iCode data.     I finally was able to coax data our of his Luna II since the Pap Link software recommended somewhere on the boards.  I'll give credit when I relocate it.  Please look at these screenshots to tell me how to distinguish between mouth and nose breathing.
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#5
RE: Help understanding data, exp open mouth
Mouth breathing shows as a flattop pattern while mask leaks are spikes in the leak graph.
Apnea (80-100%) 10 seconds, Hypopnea (50-80%) 10 seconds, Flow Limits (0-50%) not timed  Cervical Collar - Dealing w DME - Chart Organizing
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#6
RE: Help understanding data, exp open mouth
yes its a mouth leak and could be a mask leak too  that's why leaks are all over the graph, choosing the right size of mask is very important, if your father is not claustrophobic then i would suggest a full face mask
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#7
RE: 3B Luna 2 Auto - Help with Data and Its Meaning
Thank you staceyburke and Psychotech.  My apologies for not responding.   I was visiting my parents for about a week.  My dad was breathing through his mouth and mostly had the mask misaligned.  The Somnifix tapes were too difficult for him to put on by himself. 

I was able to tag along for Dad's DME appointment.   He now has a ResMed AirFit F30i.   The representative who did the fitting was excellent.  She had tons of patience coaching my dad through putting it on and off himself.  It really helps that he has that base understanding when we need to remind him how the mask works.  With the magnetic snaps, he can put it on by himself even with his tremors.  Being able to release the hose without messing with the mask is a big help.  He usually remembers that it is an option.  If he gets confused and disconnects the magnetic straps or the straps themselves, he can't use it for the rest of the night.  He's been pretty good at getting the cushion aligned when he puts it on.  It has confused him that it is so quiet that he thinks that the machine isn't on.   Unfortunately he does not notice if a leak is blowing in face when he is sleeping.  

We've concluded that the iCode data is useless for figuring out if the mask is actually leaking.   But we stand over the machine while it running we can get a feeling for possible leaks by watching the flow(?) gage.  If it returns to zero between breaths the mask is aligned properly. I forgot to take a photo so I don't know what it is actually called. It is the left rectangle when looking at the home screen on the machine.

I have a photo the the treatment report from the screen and the iCode report by can not post it here because I haven't done enough posts yet.


The Auto ON only works if you make a giant exaggerated gasp.  The Auto Off doesn't work, even if there isn't a mask attached.  


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#8
RE: 3B Luna 2 Auto - Help with Data and Its Meaning
The PAPLINK software is nothing compared to Oscar but gives more info that I was expecting for the Luna.  Now that I've been given some hints I can see when my dad's mask isn't leaking.   Here is the link to SuperSleeper's post explaining PAPLINK.  http://www.apneaboard.com/forums/Thread-...r-software

BMC offers additional PAP LINK (Windows-only) software designed to enable the changing of CPAP clinical settings from the SD memory card.
You can download the PAP LINK software here:
https://3bproducts.com/pap_link.exe

Downloading data from the SD card, you have the option to choose how many days of detailed data you want.
After downloading, you can look at
1. Chart that shows a Daily List of your pressure levels by hour.  
2. Your current machine settings
3. Statistics of Usage, Pressure, Respiratory Indices and Leaks
4. Summary bar graphs of Duration of usage, Periods of usage, Pressure, AHI & AI, Leak
5. Detailed Graph
6. Reports

The Detailed Graphs show Pressure Trend (cmH2O), Respiratory Events (OSA, CSA, HYP), Flow (LPM), and Leak (LPM).  It's formatted weirdly.   The first two are bound on the top and the last two are bound on the bottom of the screen and there is slide to adjust the frame between the two groups.  (Someone please tell me how to see all the traces at the same time.)
 
You can choose the scale (10 seconds to 24 hours) and the start time of the periods separately for each group.  There is the cursor shows the time and date and tracks on both groups.
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#9
RE: 3B Luna 2 Auto - Help with Data and Its Meaning
Attempting to post graphs to show what they look like 

1) Daily List

[Image: k54fpSjJdWgCXu0SDmsUOUP3TCCiyBQt9WeUzyyv...kj5tPRraXY]

2 & 3) are boring
4) Summary Graphs

[Image: gPhdhReoGFEYsw41ziCeBlUErvqweZoTKLoPeU9b...nJzIT2Q9TE]

[Image: gSZFJmSnwCbLugQ3dOdGxscpCn9E2d9NME83wITL...jIIn-cD9pI]
5) Detailed Graphs

[Image: ytMOWftAUogo4WujhPOoUF6Q-LjrwhbrQE6_9_wC...KUPN59mHsc]
[Image: 9khR0XTfHp2UcdEK2UgYFAuM-8AnjaLciTTgv9aK...mbdnz27DRg]
[Image: z-dMA1wdDDMcvdAyxk0OEZPpK8vkhZQ9lM5pZ9Ru...-5Zt7eTwJk]
[Image: MrXYJtX2Od71esEi1geD-lMIaLva4OvM6DNXzizn...ltiIO9Nk20]

July 20, 2022 Fitbit 4:15 am - 8:15 am CST
[Image: OAe_B_kDCx4coqVnpfN9L-9vLtPHCYM8e4UmjB8V...IBVmI0qfpw]

The PapLink graph for the same time period. Note the time is off by one hour. 

[Image: Lm35CxrMMyGTYvENw2mP4apFoAA9rNjMrMFOevIF...0s8MrFde_I]
[Image: U7m2h5rch16uu-jRwB6-7GOgPV04zqQHlTwjbnER...tQsvkaaDCQ]
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#10
RE: 3B Luna 2 Auto - Help with Data and Its Meaning
Too much leaks try to control it try full face mask
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