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9 months on CPAP - recent mouth breathing
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Sleepster Offline
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Post: #11
RE: 9 months on CPAP - recent mouth breathing
(09-23-2012 09:59 PM)mckevin32 Wrote:  After over a year of no problems (also with the Swift FX) I suddenly found myself with mouth leaks nightly. I asked my doc (okay, his nurse) for a chinstrap script and she said that if I was mouth breathing I needed a full face mask, I held firm, she relented, and I am happy with the results.

The fix for mouth-breathing is a full face mask.

The fix for mouth-leaking is a chinstrap.

In cases where the chinstrap doesn't work you'd move on to a full face mask.

Sleepster
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INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.
09-29-2012 12:27 PM
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genes Offline

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Post: #12
RE: 9 months on CPAP - recent mouth breathing
Mouth breathing and leaking with a nasal mask is likely a problem that you will need to deal with as long as you use cpap. A chin strap may work but many people eventually need to tape their mouth shut or find other methods to stop mouth breathing. Full face masks are much better now than they were a few years ago. If you can find one that works for you it is a good choice.
CPAP treatment does not work when you breath in or out of your mouth while using a nasal mask. If the apnea's do not keep you awake the extreme pressure and flow variations will likely disturb your sleep and wake you up. I won't try to go into a lot of detail but it is important to eliminate mouth involvement when using a nasal cpap mask.
GeneS


(09-23-2012 09:10 AM)hoser Wrote:  So, I have been on CPAP for 9 months using an S9 and a swift fx mask.

On occasion I would wake up or be woken up by my wife sounding like Darth Vader because my mouth was open and air was rushing out of my mouth.

For the last week or two the incedence of mouth breathing has become more frequent and my leak numbers while not bad are worse than the trend for the last several months.

I'm hoping that this is just a momentary phase that will pass.
09-30-2012 10:18 PM
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Sleepster Offline
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Machine: ResMed AirCurve10 VAuto
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Post: #13
RE: 9 months on CPAP - recent mouth breathing
(09-30-2012 10:18 PM)genes Wrote:  Mouth breathing and leaking with a nasal mask is likely a problem that you will need to deal with as long as you use cpap. A chin strap may work but many people eventually need to tape their mouth shut or find other methods to stop mouth breathing.

I think that's a bit of an exageration. Not many people tape their mouths shut. It's a foolish and irresponsible thing to do. It could kill you.

Most people who mouth-leak can solve the problem with a chinstrap. Those who can't move on to a full face mask.

Sleepster
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INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.
09-30-2012 10:58 PM
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REMember Offline

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Post: #14
RE: 9 months on CPAP - recent mouth breathing
I remember folks on the forum I was on in 1998 that taped their mouths shut. Chin straps work most of the time. I use one and I love the way it stabilizes my headgear. The problem with mouth-breathing is that your jaw doesn't need to drop. Your lips simply need to part and that can be a problem at higher pressures. I don't know if it's still the case but, way back when, some of the chinstraps were designed to fit in such a way that they supported your lower lip. I agree though, if a chinstrap doesn't work, a full face mask is your next option.
10-01-2012 12:26 AM
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zonk Offline

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Post: #15
RE: 9 months on CPAP - recent mouth breathing
its the tongue that act as a door stopper prevent air going into the mouth when using a nasal mask
in this case chinstrap won't help much
10-01-2012 12:37 AM
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genes Offline

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Post: #16
RE: 9 months on CPAP - recent mouth breathing
(09-30-2012 10:58 PM)Sleepster Wrote:  
(09-30-2012 10:18 PM)genes Wrote:  Mouth breathing and leaking with a nasal mask is likely a problem that you will need to deal with as long as you use cpap. A chin strap may work but many people eventually need to tape their mouth shut or find other methods to stop mouth breathing.

I think that's a bit of an exageration. Not many people tape their mouths shut. It's a foolish and irresponsible thing to do. It could kill you.

Most people who mouth-leak can solve the problem with a chinstrap. Those who can't move on to a full face mask.

Sleepster
Call it and me what you want. I understand that you are posting to be helpful. The fact is many people do use tape to eliminate mouth breathing or leaking with a nasal mask. A chin strap does not always do the job and sometimes there can be problems with full face masks. I will admit that when I first heard about taping I had similar concerns but after reading posts on another board from many cpap users who were taping I decided to give it a try. It worked for me like it has for many others but I am not a doctor and each person should consider his own situation and seek advice where he sees fit. My guess is that most doctors will not tell someone to tape. My first cpap doctor and therapist did not tell me when I started cpap that I shouldn't breath thru my mouth while using a nasal mask. They did not think it was a problem. My current doctor listens to me and has an open mind. I have not heard of a case where anyone has had a medical problem or died from taping but if you know of a case I would appreciate knowing.
GeneS
10-01-2012 09:12 AM
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archangle Offline
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Post: #17
RE: 9 months on CPAP - recent mouth breathing
Taping your mouth risks suffocation or other problems if the machine quits blowing and you don't wake up while wearing a nasal mask. You will be rebreathing your own exhaled air. Oxygen will decrease and CO2 will increase. This can cause you to sink deeper into unconsciousness and stop breathing. This is why all full face masks to have an anti-asphyxia valve.

Most people will wake up and be able to take the mask or tape off, but it's not a sure thing.

There is a risk of aspiration pneumonia if you vomit before you can get the tape off. Aspiration pneumonia is very bad. Google it.

Many people tape anyway despite the risks and have no problems. The risk may be small, but you'll probably be doing this for the rest of your life so risks add up.

Get the free SleepyHead software here.
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If it's midnight and a DME tells you it's dark outside, go and check it yourself.
10-01-2012 07:29 PM
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archangle Offline
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Post: #18
RE: 9 months on CPAP - recent mouth breathing
(10-01-2012 09:12 AM)genes Wrote:  Sleepster
Call it and me what you want. I understand that you are posting to be helpful. The fact is many people do use tape to eliminate mouth breathing or leaking with a nasal mask. A chin strap does not always do the job and sometimes there can be problems with full face masks. I will admit that when I first heard about taping I had similar concerns but after reading posts on another board from many cpap users who were taping I decided to give it a try. It worked for me like it has for many others but I am not a doctor and each person should consider his own situation and seek advice where he sees fit. My guess is that most doctors will not tell someone to tape. My first cpap doctor and therapist did not tell me when I started cpap that I shouldn't breath thru my mouth while using a nasal mask. They did not think it was a problem. My current doctor listens to me and has an open mind. I have not heard of a case where anyone has had a medical problem or died from taping but if you know of a case I would appreciate knowing.
GeneS

Let's assume someone does suffocate because they taped their mouth with a nasal mask and their CPAP machine quit blowing.

Presumably an ambulance gets called. If whoever found the body doesn't do it first, the EMTs will probably rip off the mask and the tape. The EMTs will confirm the person is dead, and the coroner will be called.

The coroner is a public official. In some places, they are elected officials and may not even be a doctor.

The coroner is mainly going to look for foul play or some sort of public health risk. Apart from that, he's probably going to be looking to fill in his paperwork in the easiest way possible. Most likely, he's simply going to see the breathing equipment and think it was someone on the edge of death who died quietly in his sleep.

Autopsies or any investigation of the cause of death is rare unless there's a suspicion of foul play. The quality of autopsies or investigations in the US is really dismal.

If he knows the power went out or the machine broke, the easy thing to do is assume the guy died from complications related to apnea. "He musta been pretty sick, Bubba, since he needed that thar breathin machine."

Now assume he does know enough about apnea to understand the risk of taping. That's a big leap because even normal MDs have very poor knowledge of CPAP. What do you expect him to do? He's probably not going to get his name in medical journals for this. Nobody recommends taping, so highlighting one case where a CPAP patient did something "dumb" and died isn't going to get much interest.

How would the coroner determine taping was the cause if he did suspect it? Is suffocation due to rebreathing stale air going to look different from a death due to severe apnea?

If he does decide in the back of his mind that the guy did kill himself accidentally, is he going to write that as his conclusion and tell the guys grieving family, "Your idiot husband killed himself with that tape?" He's a politician. He's not going to step into that hornets' nest unless he has to. Easiest to just say natural causes.

I'm not saying you're an idiot to tape. Just realize there IS some risk. I might do it myself if I couldn't fix my leaks any other way. I'd try everything else first and would do it as carefully as possible.

For those who say "show me a dead body," I'm sure there are plenty of tapers who died in their sleep with no obvious cause. Unless you can show me statistics where these were investigated and shown NOT to be related to taping, the onus is upon you to say it's safe, not upon me to show it isn't.

Get the free SleepyHead software here.
Useful links.
Click here for information on the main alternative to CPAP.
If it's midnight and a DME tells you it's dark outside, go and check it yourself.
10-01-2012 07:53 PM
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Sleepster Offline
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Machine: ResMed AirCurve10 VAuto
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Other Comments: Diagnosed Nov 2011. Conquered aerophagia.

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Post: #19
RE: 9 months on CPAP - recent mouth breathing
You can tape your mouth closed by taking three strips of tape and forming a "U". Google chin up strips marketed in the UK as anti-snoring devices and you'll see what I mean. I found it very uncomfortable.

I would think a hybrid mask would be far more comfortable than taping. A lot less risky, too. Someone needs to invent a way to embed an anti-asphyxia valve into a mouthpiece.

Sleepster
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INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.
10-01-2012 08:08 PM
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archangle Offline
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Post: #20
RE: 9 months on CPAP - recent mouth breathing
(10-01-2012 08:08 PM)Sleepster Wrote:  Someone needs to invent a way to embed an anti-asphyxia valve into a mouthpiece.

It would be easy to make an anti-asphyxia valve that fits between the mask and the hose on a nasal mask. There are quite a few masks with separate anti-aspyxia valves, but none have the right size fittings on the end.

Get the free SleepyHead software here.
Useful links.
Click here for information on the main alternative to CPAP.
If it's midnight and a DME tells you it's dark outside, go and check it yourself.
10-01-2012 08:30 PM
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