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A Modest Proposal
#11
I am a Wiki Editor here and anything takes time and volunteers. Most of the advisors will tell you I am fairly prolific.
My latest is in my signature. I expect it to be more in your face in the near future.

Yes you have to be able to use a search feature to find data in a wiki.

Hope this helps.

I haven't done anything with waveforms yet. Sorry.

Fred
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#12
(06-06-2017, 10:17 AM)bonjour Wrote: I am a Wiki Editor here and anything takes time and volunteers.  Most of the advisors will tell you I am fairly prolific.
My latest is in my signature.  I expect it to be more in your face in the near future.  

Yes you have to be able to use a search feature to find data in a wiki.

Hope this helps.

I haven't done anything with waveforms yet. Sorry.

Fred

Fred, I believe that having topics discussed by theme in an in-depth and focused fashion in the central repository of a sub-forum ought to make your life easier as a Wiki editor.

As it is now, there are brilliant bits of insight spread over thousands of threads that are often organized around member's personal issues. 

These threads are invaluable to people with questions and concerns (myself included) but a person attempting to educate themselves on specific topics would need to have good luck, good search skills, or both.

My idea is not intended as a criticism of the Wiki building process and is (IMO) a way to help facilitate the process by having a separate sub-forum for focused topics (of a limited theme) that can easily be found all in one place.

Thanks for your good work!

Bill
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#13
Acutally I like it the way it is .... it's a board! - it's all about asking and respondig.
Where would be the fun in writing a new "book" on sleepapnea? .. boring! noone would read that^^

Having strict "topics" is also not helpful for the majority ... patients are complex - so are their questions.
If you look at some threads you will see that they start with a simple question and on page 3 (or so) the treatment is completely changed, they have another mask and laugh about how clueless some doctors are as they finally reached the point where the treatment NOW actually shows effects.

this board and all of the staff and each and every member is really more than "just" helpful. Thanks A LOT like
It's not that common nowadays that "n00b"questions from new members are actually answered (or pointed in the right direction) and they do NOT get only responses like "use the search function - answered 1,000 times already" (or similar "responses")
(It's not like that would be impossible on this board - at least for me it looks like nearly every possible question is already answered in nearly every way possible)

In the end the therapy is a ongoing process - I really I-love-Apnea-Board
I can learn nearly every day something new ... never gets boring.
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#14
(06-06-2017, 10:28 AM)TBMx Wrote: Acutally I like it the way it is .... it's a board! - it's all about asking and respondig.
Where would be the fun in writing a new "book" on sleepapnea? .. boring! noone would read that^^

Having strict "topics" is also not helpful for the majority ... patients are complex - so are their questions.
If you look at some threads you will see that they start with a simple question and on page 3 (or so) the treatment is completely changed, they have another mask and laugh about how clueless some doctors are as they finally reached the point where the treatment NOW actually shows effects.

this board and all of the staff and each and every member is really more than "just" helpful.  Thanks  A LOT  like
It's not that common nowadays that "n00b"questions from new members are actually answered (or pointed in the right direction) and they do NOT get only responses like "use the search function - answered 1,000 times already" (or similar "responses")
(It's not like that would be impossible on this board - at least for me it looks like nearly every possible question is already answered in nearly every way possible)

In the end the therapy is a ongoing process - I really  I-love-Apnea-Board
I can learn nearly every day something new ... never gets boring.

It would be a "discussion section" and not a "book" (like a Wiki) which is exactly my point. such a sub-forum would not take way from the main forum, where personally-driven thread would remain.

I'm aware that personal questions get answered, that's a great thing. I'm not suggesting newbies are or should be blown-off and told to use the search function.

I do think a seperate focused sub-forum of topics would advance the educational mission of the forum.

Bill
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#15
(06-06-2017, 10:40 AM)Spy Car Wrote: It would be a "discussion section" and not a "book" (like a Wiki) which is exactly my point. such a sub-forum would not take way from the main forum, where personally-driven thread would remain.

This might be a good idea, but it needs fleshing out. Can you start by giving me an example of one or two specific topics? How would the discussion start and what problem would it solve.

For example, suppose one topic is RERA. So the first post is a discussion of the definition of RERA and how it's used. This would follow by other posters asking questions about it and how it relates to their situation. Being a thread, it will drift and eventually get filled with discussions of other topics. And then a new user comes on wanting to learn about RERA. Reads the first few posts and asks a question about it, and the process repeats itself. How is that different from someone doing a search for RERA, or looking in the acronym wiki for a definition of RERA, and then starting a new thread asking their specific question?

When a newbie is looking for information about a specific thing like RERA it's for a reason. And that reason has to do with lots of other issues they're having. So a discussion of that particular person's situation is what's needed, and that's what we currently have.

I can sum it up with one question: What's the problem we're trying to solve? We're trying to help people get answers about their own treatment, and I just don't see how this idea will help achieve that goal. Of course, I'm willing to be educated.
Sleepster
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www.ApneaBoard.com


INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.
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#16
(06-06-2017, 11:20 AM)Sleepster Wrote:
(06-06-2017, 10:40 AM)Spy Car Wrote: It would be a "discussion section" and not a "book" (like a Wiki) which is exactly my point. such a sub-forum would not take way from the main forum, where personally-driven thread would remain.

This might be a good idea, but it needs fleshing out. Can you start by giving me an example of one or two specific topics? How would the discussion start and what problem would it solve.

For example, suppose one topic is RERA. So the first post is a discussion of the definition of RERA and how it's used. This would follow by other posters asking questions about it and how it relates to their situation. Being a thread, it will drift and eventually get filled with discussions of other topics. And then a new user comes on wanting to learn about RERA. Reads the first few posts and asks a question about it, and the process repeats itself. How is that different from someone doing a search for RERA, or looking in the acronym wiki for a definition of RERA, and then starting a new thread asking their specific question?

When a newbie is looking for information about a specific thing like RERA it's for a reason. And that reason has to do with lots of other issues they're having. So a discussion of that particular person's situation is what's needed, and that's what we currently have.

I can sum it up with one question: What's the problem we're trying to solve? We're trying to help people get answers about their own treatment, and I just don't see how this idea will help achieve that goal. Of course, I'm willing to be educated.

The answer to the question, "what problem are we trying to solve," is—I think—an easy one to answer. 

The forum is brilliant is its current form for solving the problems of newcomers. Moderators and other well-informed members are generous with their time and expertise, and kind to people who need help. Solving people's problems is the most valuable part of a forum like this and this one does the job in an excellent fashion.

The "problem" is that for motivated newcomers who hope to become more informed and more expert in sleep apnea, the deeper understanding of the Sleepyhead (and other) software graphs, and differences in hardware types, it can be difficult to glean knowledge from posts aimed more at helping an individual user that it might be in one aimed at exploring a single topic (in a general) fashion.

I think digging down into different types of events or different hardware types would be very educational for motivated learners is the sort of expertise that I know exists among members (as I attempt to read the forum widely) was available in a thread "by type". Perhaps I'm alone in thinking this would be a boon? 
But to me, it would solve the problem of great pearls of wisdom being scattered across multiple threads, especially where the nugget of wisdom was not the main topic and might be lost (unless one got lucky in search mode).

I think focused threads in their own subforum could enhance the education of interested newcomers. I also believe gentle moderation of such threads could keep them "on target." I also think it would make writing Wikis easier as they'd provide editors with a knowledge base. Right now, if one looks at the Wiki for RERAs (to use your example) it is pretty dry and technical. 

I think a sub-forum of the sort I propose could raise the education of users like myself.

Best,

Bill
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#17
(06-06-2017, 09:57 AM)Spy Car Wrote: My idea didn't meet with a very positive response when first posted, but I'm giving it a *bump* in hopes that it gets a second consideration.

I think having a sub-forum with targeted and focused educational topics discussing things like the significance of the data points produced by Sleepyhead (by category) would be very useful to news users and would be a resource for Wiki editors as a repository of both collective wisdom and as an insight into the questions newbies

Having an interactive (but focused) area organized around tightly focused topics would be educational and would only advance the Wiki building IMO.

Best,

Bill

With respect to the interpretation of Sleepyhead data, have you considered the alternative -- non-professionals discussing highly technical issues? Possibly with passion, arguing their position from a layman's understanding of a technical subject.  

It appears fashionable today to ignore or devalue the advice of true professionals in favor of internet discussions between well-meaning, but untrained, people. How many people will read an entire thread to see the pros and cons -- and then might have the wisdom to take the right path for them?

I think the current format works just fine and actually acts as somewhat of a filter -- you can take the advice, leave the advice, or most importantly, have discussion points for your physician.

If anything, I would like to see a wiki entry showing various charts, with call-outs, and notations from skilled medical or PSG practitioners. Example: this is the format set-up to make your data look like our examples. Now here is an example of CSR/PB followed by classic advice about treatment alternatives. Now here is an example where the patient might be helped by narrowing the pressure range. There are a limited number of topics.

Considering the variations in human physiology, co-morbidities (other conditions), drug (prescription) drug use ... I think sub-forums are a great idea, but somewhat less important than a well-designed and maintained wiki. Allowing a wiki link to a curated/moderated discussion would also work as a sub-forum.
"The object in life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane." -- Marcus Aurelius
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#18
I think I agree with Bill.

I have been helped tremendously personally and am slowly returning to the land of the living. I know reaching there will still take some time and further understanding. Therein lies the problem that Bill is referring to. I want to get to topics to do with understanding Sleepyhead data. I have been reading RobySue's wonderful introduction but I seem to drown in some of the paragraphs. It could be my brain still needs more sleep. I am quite technical-not medical but architectural.

I think I can understand most things with many readings but there you are.....I think the mass of the introduction is distracting. I have read many threads in the relatively short time I have been on this forum and there are wonderful nuggets of learning. However it is hard to remember where it nestled in which thread......
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#19
Thus my "push" suggesting you guy's become wiki editors.
My first attempt was the Mask Primer, there is really nothing new in there, just bringing together as many phases of using a mask as I could think of. Because of its organization it has become highly referenced (look at the sigs of those giving advice on the forum) . Masks and mask issues are a lot of the forum posts. It is my attempt to consolidate information.

My latest attempt "New to Apnea? Helpful tips to ensure success" is the same type of thing with many of the Advisors liking the content.

My point is that it is people with a vision that can put together the articles that they see are needed, and you have some of that vision.
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#20
Bill,

I think that you are looking at 2 separate scenarios. The first is the person looking for help with his/her particular situation. For that I think that the current forum works well. The second scenario is a person looking for more information on general or specific aspects of sleep apnea and its treatment. A person who wants to learn more about the things he/she is working with. I think that we are trying to make the Wiki into that type of library.

I would like to see good technical discussions put in a separate place to keep them from getting buried under the load of threads and the lack of an indicative title. Originally I thought of a Tech forum but after discussion and reflection I do not think that would work well since the discussions usually start in the middle of a different thread. I doubt if there would be much interest in starting a tech discussion in a separate area. Maybe a Wiki where those types of discussions that occur could have indexed links in the Wiki area.

Just my thoughts.

PaytonA

Admin Note:
PaytonA passed away in September 2017
Click HERE to read his Memorial Thread

~ Rest in Peace ~
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