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AHI and Other Stats
#1
AHI and Other Stats
Just out of curiosity, has anyone had a great nights sleep, woke up feeling great yet the AHI/Mask Fit/ and other stats were bad?
Or the opposite? Great stats but woke up feeling worn out? Do the reading always mean quality sleep or just an indication of potential
problems?

One night I had trouble with back pain while trying to sleep, congestion, yet the 'AHI' was lower than the next night were the back pain was
gone and no congestion. I thought it would have shown up in better stats. I have the Dream Station 200 series that Oscar does not support, why I don't know. So I have a limited read out.

There are a lot of terms used here I don't know what they represent, is there a dictionary here somewhere to explain what they mean?
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#2
RE: AHI and Other Stats
If you wake alot at night due to stuff like pain and discomfort (not related to sleep apnea), and feel crappy in the morning, but see your AHI is low, that's simply due to being awake for most of the night.  Or you can feel like you slept well and feel good in the morning, and see higher numbers.

Good readings don't always mean quality sleep.

AHI can go either way (up or down) depending on many things like pain, discomfort, restlessness, etc. Also, some medications have an affect on AHI.

This is one reason we focus on how you feel rather than chasing numbers.  

You asked for a dictionary of terms, so here you go... Smile

http://www.apneaboard.com/wiki/index.php/Definitions

http://www.apneaboard.com/wiki/index.php/Acronyms
OpalRose
Apnea Board Administrator
www.ApneaBoard.com

OSCAR Chart Organization


INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE.  ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA.  INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.
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#3
RE: AHI and Other Stats
AHI is a tricky thing. The machine only counts events that last a certain duration. If you have an event that's one second shorter than that, it doesn't get counted in the stats. I had a thing 4 years ago where I was totally wrecked. So exhausted I could barely sit up and could not handle having anyone even in the next room. (I've got several other sleeping disorders besides apnea, so it doesn't take much to put me into major sleep deprivation.) The machine was reporting AHI of around 2-2.5 every night, but I still felt terrible. I talked to my doc, who was skeptical, but agreed to order another sleep study. AHI on the study was 80. We adjusted the pressure settings and I could walk and talk and function again. 

As with just about anything... A single number can be a useful guide, but it doesn't give you the full picture.
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#4
RE: AHI and Other Stats
Thanks man, good info. I bumped up the pressure from 4.5 to 5 last night. Defiantly slept deeper and longer, long interesting dreams.
I thought my readings would reflect that. AHI was the same as the night before. But I slept better. One problem for me is when I do
increase the pressure, I have a harder time exhaling. The uvula acts like a 'stopper' and blocks up my throat from exhaling. I do use a C-FLEX
pressure relief on 3, maximum, but it's not enough. I could be better off with a bypap machine. Also running a steam room humidifier 
for congestion relief.
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#5
RE: AHI and Other Stats
A CFlex setting of 3 won't even kick in until the pressure has reached 7cm.  The Cpap can't drop below a pressure of 4.  So in your case, the minimum pressure should be set to at least 6 or 7.

Know that CFlex cannot give you anymore than 2cm drop in exhale pressure regardless of the setting. It is based on flow and depends mostly on the strength of exhale.  

Your machine is pretty old and not supported by OSCAR.  We have no way of looking at data, so can only go by how you feel.  Do you have any idea what your AHI reading is?

You probably would do better to set your pressure at 7cm and CFlex at 2.  (7 minus 2 CFlex =5 on exhale)
OpalRose
Apnea Board Administrator
www.ApneaBoard.com

OSCAR Chart Organization


INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE.  ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA.  INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.
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#6
RE: AHI and Other Stats
I recently bought the Dream Station not knowing it was an older machine. The one I was using before was a System One. I talked to Supplier #1 about it.  DME link removed.
The product description seemed the same a the D.S.Pro. I do see the dream mapper stats and AHI is high, bout 28. 

I've tried adjusting C-Flex on this lower pressure and it does work, I can feel the difference, going from 1 to 3. 
I was wondering why Oscar would not support the 200 series D.S. Resperonics could not explain nor Supplier #1.

They say it's the same software in both machines and do not recommend using Oscar. All I get is hours used, mask fit and AHI.

If I increase the pressure, I can't exhale. That's my problem. Can't exhale, can't sleep. I tried the resmed auto, pressure started at 4.0 on startup, when I woke up, it was at 9.0 and my lungs where expanded like balloons.

Anyone know why the 200 series is not supported by Oscar? Is there a software difference?







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#7
RE: AHI and Other Stats
Unfortunately, if you would have come here first, we would have guided you in what to buy.  What Supplier #1 sold you is what we refer to as a "brick".  

OSCAR can only report what a machine writes to the SD card, and the DreamStation 200 is not a data capable machine.  It can only give you compliance data, like AHI and hours used.  I think the person you talked to was not very
informed.  

The DS Pro (400 series) is a data capable machine, but is also a straight pressure Cpap, not Auto.  But you could have at least gotten data from it, and is supported by OSCAR.  

If you want to track and improve your therapy, then OSCAR software is a great tool.  But you need a data capable machine.
Most here prefer ResMed machines.

If you find yourself in a position to replace that "brick", check out the link below and also the supplier list at the top of the page.  Many folk here have had excellent service with Supplier #2.  

I do suggest you contact that supplier again and talk to someone more knowledgeable that may be willing to take that machine back.

READ,THIS:
http://www.apneaboard.com/wiki/index.php...ne_choices

NOTE:  Per our rules, we do not allow links to commercial or DME sites.  The supplier you listed can be referred to as
Supplier #1.
OpalRose
Apnea Board Administrator
www.ApneaBoard.com

OSCAR Chart Organization


INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE.  ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA.  INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.
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#8
RE: AHI and Other Stats
28 is just short of being classified as severe, 30 would make it severe.  That is extremely bad for a "treated" apnea.  If the data was the same OSCAR would read it. Obviously you were at best misled.

One of 2 things are likely happening, and we can't tell without the detailed charts that OSCAR or perhaps Encore, PR's program, will provide.

First do this.  Get a tall glass of water and a straw, now make like a kid and blow bubbles.  Assuming you did so you just exhaled against the max pressure a CPAP can produce, 8 inches of water (I did say a tall glass). CPAPs are really a low pressure machine.

I'm not saying you didn't have trouble with pressure, just to be more descriptive of the trouble you are having with the pressure.

Two possibilities, 
1. You need more pressure to resolve your events.
2. You are tucking your chin.  To eliminate this get a soft cervical collar, see my signature, if you are no amount of pressure will correct it.  A g{d chance, no certainty, this is happening.
Gideon - Project Manager and Lead Tester for OSCAR - Open Source CPAP Analysis Reporter

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#9
RE: AHI and Other Stats
(01-29-2021, 05:26 AM)Jeremy H Wrote: Thanks man, good info. I bumped up the pressure from 4.5 to 5 last night. Defiantly slept deeper and longer, long interesting dreams.
I thought my readings would reflect that. AHI was the same as the night before. But I slept better. One problem for me is when I do
increase the pressure, I have a harder time exhaling. The uvula acts like a 'stopper' and blocks up my throat from exhaling. I do use a C-FLEX
pressure relief on 3, maximum, but it's not enough. I could be better off with a bypap machine. Also running a steam room humidifier 
for congestion relief.

A couple of thoughts on this, actually guesses since you don't have data.  Your pressure is too low, near the machine minimum, so it is likely you are having obstructive events. This is especially true if you did not experience central or clear airway on your old System One.   The condition you are describing of your uvula blocking your airway and blocking flow, sounds like palatal prolapse.  Here is a forum thread on the topic http://www.apneaboard.com/forums/Thread-...-with-CPAP 
Another article https://sites.google.com/view/palatal-prolapse/
Another perspective from Dr. Steven Park titled Two Things That Go Flop In the Night, Making You Wake Up (please search as there may be commercial content). Park is a surgeon and generally favors a surgical approach to problems.

I wish you luck in getting your machine situation resolved.  We prefer to see members on a Resmed Autoset or Elite, but the Dreamstation Auto or Pro also provide good data. Both the Resmed CPAP and Dreamstation CPAP dsx200 are "bricks" and supply no therapy data.
Sleeprider
Apnea Board Moderator
www.ApneaBoard.com

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INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.
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#10
RE: AHI and Other Stats
Wow, you guy's are great man! I've never been on a forum like this in over the last 20 years of being on sleep therapy.
Your right, I read that thread about "Read this before buying another machine. I didn't know about you guys before.

The weird thing is, I have gotton good nights sleep on these low pressures before. It's just not consistent. 
I was hospitalized in 1992 for 2 weeks at John Hopkins Baltimore Md. where they diagnosed me with a sleep disorder. I was a mess back then. I'd fall asleep standing up and wake up as I was hitting the floor. My brain was so messed up I could hardly see straight. I fell down a flight of stairs once after falling asleep at the top of them.

Back then you never heard of sleep apnea. Had a sleep study done at Hopkins and got a machine. But I noticed at times it was not really opening up my airway and figured out how to change pressures. So if the 'pro's' don't have it right, who does? 

I have a very narrow airway, (had a seizure in the ICU) they told me that. Tonsils never removed. But now I'm at my ideal weight, exercise and all that stuff. I'm going to try gradually increasing the pressures. Once again, should have checked out you guy's before, thanks for your reply's and helping me out.
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