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AHI means nothing
#11
RE: AHI means nothing
Yes, I do understand fully. I'm getting older by the day and so far, there's nothing that I can do about it. 

My CPAP Therapy has been going fine (low AHI's) since my 1st night (9-11-2018). No issues, problems, or things to overcome. For that, I am fortunate. 

I'm still sticking to it, but I'm going to be very honest. I will not do this for the rest of my life. It's just not worth it. I suspect my Sleep Apnea isn't all that bad. Compared to some on here that have discussed their issues, I know that for a fact. 

I sleep as well w/o it, as I do with it. No difference! I could go w/o for a week and be just fine. I skip a night here and there. When I'm on it, I make sure I get my min. 4 hrs. in. I tend to average 5-6 hrs. at a time. I'm not 100% compliant obviously, and I never will be. 

I'm shooting for 5 yrs. of use. That's my goal! Once I hit that goal, I will then decide whether or not to continue it.
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#12
RE: AHI means nothing
The trouble with ignoring numbers is that, when you start to feel poorly, to what do you ascribe the change?  If the change is commensurate with a change in SPO2, or with AHI, does that mean nothing?  If you feel good for a week, and drop your pressure, but don't look at your AHI, and you continue to feel good, does that lone week mean you are cured of an originally diagnosed condition?  Or, that the original diagnosis was wrong all along?

Science doesn't objectively look at feelings.  Feelings vary from day-to-day, just as our AHI numbers do, and just as the numbers of events of a type do.  One night I'll have two 'open airway' events, the next night nothing.  But I have a poorer sleep the night where there are no reported events.  Or, a better night when there are no reported events.

The point is, if your machine is serving you well, your AHI numbers should be low, and the industry currently says that low is under 5 events/hr.  If you aren't feeling well on such nights, there might be something other than apnea/hypopnea going on.  The treatment may be allowing you to sleep better, but not so sensitive as to notice other problems such as GERD, bowel gas and bloating, restless leg syndrome, and other disruptions or impediments to awakening feeling refreshed.  Or, even though your machine is treating you properly, those other conditions interfere with sleep unbeknownst to you, and you feel horrible after nights where the machine says you're being well-served apnea-wise.

Ignoring the numbers is as risky as ignoring your speedometer.  You may feel exhilarated flying down the road doing what you think is a safe 60 in a 55 mph zone, but when you look, you're doing 66...or 48.  

Your car battery may crank your engine reliably and you think all is well, but one day a mechanic tells you the voltage is only 11.8.  That's a sign something is wrong; it's not getting the proper voltage to remain properly charged, or it can't take the charging voltage because of sulfated plates.  It's either the battery, the connections, or the alternator.  How do you tell?

Perhaps what is the problem with so many of us who report not responding well to PAP therapy is that we think the onset of a correct prescription and therapy ought to correct how poorly we feel or how badly our health is.   And soon.  Unfortunately, this is often not the case.  

It doesn't follow that deviating from, or discarding, one's prescribed therapy, or one corrected over time to properly treat us, is doing us any good.  If one alters one's settings substantially, say by more than 20%, it is just going to be a waste of time and money...no matter how good you feel the next morning...and it is as likely to be dangerous.
Contrite, and wiser.
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#13
RE: AHI means nothing
My experience so far. I've started off at 5min - 15max pressure setting, and then tried higher pressures to 7 and 9, and it ended up causing insomnia in the end due to the my Airsense 10 pushing abrupt pressure when I'm on the verge of falling asleep and it would keep me awake, and I was strugging with this last few days.

I set my pressure down back to 5, and this doesn't happen. I was told raising pressure higher and lowering my max would keep it from pressure rise, but it turned out opposite was true. By keeping it at low pressure like 5, the pressure is more stable until I fall asleep. I realized that recommending pressure settings can cause people harm than good as it can cause people to develop insomnia. So, pressure recommendations should be much more careful. We are messing with settings that can mess up people's sleep!

Most important is that people fall asleep. So, please think before recommending pressure values that will prevent people from falling asleep! Yall do not know people's physical circumstances, and the graphs will not tell you. I was pushed to increase my pressure more and more here!

I was getting good AHI number when I had pressure set high and had sleep issues, and was getting very little sleep, but now with slightly higher AHI, and more sleep, I feel better.
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#14
RE: AHI means nothing
(02-19-2021, 06:02 PM)Big Guy Wrote: Yes, I do understand fully. I'm getting older by the day and so far, there's nothing that I can do about it. 

My CPAP Therapy has been going fine (low AHI's) since my 1st night (9-11-2018). No issues, problems, or things to overcome. For that, I am fortunate. 

I'm still sticking to it, but I'm going to be very honest. I will not do this for the rest of my life. It's just not worth it. I suspect my Sleep Apnea isn't all that bad. Compared to some on here that have discussed their issues, I know that for a fact. 

I sleep as well w/o it, as I do with it. No difference! I could go w/o for a week and be just fine. I skip a night here and there. When I'm on it, I make sure I get my min. 4 hrs. in. I tend to average 5-6 hrs. at a time. I'm not 100% compliant obviously, and I never will be. 

I'm shooting for 5 yrs. of use. That's my goal! Once I hit that goal, I will then decide whether or not to continue it.

Know the feeling.

If I have to wear all this c.rap then it had better work and be comfortable.

A thought?  Are you getting enough sleep?

That's something Ihave to watch.  I'm an old f.rt and doesn't matter what time I go to bed, my dog wakes me up same time every morning.

BigGuy you helped me a lot talking about the hose hanger thing. I stopped using mine for years.  I'm using it now; it makes a huge difference.  The Devil's in the details.

My Father was career Navy.  Served WW2 in Cdn Wavy Navy with the Royal Navy, and Korean with the Canadian Navy  He had sleep apnea. I remember now how he sounded sleeping.  Then somewhere along the way they invented Sleep Apnea and cpap and here we are. He lived to 76. Never diagnosed.  

My take....they need to focus on sleep quality.  Cuz wearing all this stuff ain't easy.  But it's worth it when I do it right.

I'm staying away from sleep docs because of this. I get stressed out with them. Being here helps so much.

Big Guy thanks for your service. And thanks for your help. You made a difference when I needed it.
DaveL
Compliant for about 30 Canadian years

I'm just a cpap user like you. I don't give medical advice. I hope to learn from you, and share my experiences with you. 
Seek the advice of a physician before seeking treatment for medical conditions including sleep apnea. Sleep-well

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#15
RE: AHI means nothing
Yup, I'm getting enough sleep. I sleep well and enough in regards to time. The CPAP Therapy has reduced my nightly visits to the bathroom considerably. I'm down to about 4 trips per night, from at least 8 or more prior. I've taken meds to help, but none seem to do anything for me. 

My father served in the Navy during the Korean conflict. When I told him I was going to enlist in the Army and go Airborne, he said that airplanes were made in fly in......not jump out of.  Smile I told him, I'm not that fond of flying in them, but I like the idea of jumping out of them. He just shook his head.......... Rolleyes 

Anyways, glad the hose hanger is working well for you. For me, it was the single best thing I did to improve my therapy. I went w/o one for about 4 weeks or so, when I first started. I saw that others on here were discussing them, and that planted the seed, so to speak. 

We have three cats, one sleeps and stays downstairs, and the other two, out in our garage. The cats in the garage don't come back into the house until I let them in. And, that's not until we are up for the day. 

Take care.....and sleep WELL! 
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#16
RE: AHI means nothing
Thanks BigGuy!

Just went snow shoeing. Glad I got there & back. Guess I better get in shape. I was told so!
DaveL
Compliant for about 30 Canadian years

I'm just a cpap user like you. I don't give medical advice. I hope to learn from you, and share my experiences with you. 
Seek the advice of a physician before seeking treatment for medical conditions including sleep apnea. Sleep-well

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#17
RE: AHI means nothing
(02-20-2021, 11:46 AM)Big Guy Wrote: Yup, I'm getting enough sleep. I sleep well and enough in regards to time. The CPAP Therapy has reduced my nightly visits to the bathroom considerably. I'm down to about 4 trips per night, from at least 8 or more prior. I've taken meds to help, but none seem to do anything for me. 

My father served in the Navy during the Korean conflict. When I told him I was going to enlist in the Army and go Airborne, he said that airplanes were made in fly in......not jump out of.  Smile I told him, I'm not that fond of flying in them, but I like the idea of jumping out of them. He just shook his head.......... Rolleyes 

Anyways, glad the hose hanger is working well for you. For me, it was the single best thing I did to improve my therapy. I went w/o one for about 4 weeks or so, when I first started. I saw that others on here were discussing them, and that planted the seed, so to speak. 

We have three cats, one sleeps and stays downstairs, and the other two, out in our garage. The cats in the garage don't come back into the house until I let them in. And, that's not until we are up for the day. 

Take care.....and sleep WELL! 
Glad your going Airborne went so well with your family. After enlisting my mother had a garage sale and got rid of any evidence I ever existed. Spent first Christmas with my platoon sergeants family. It was a great Christmas. 
My getting up to go to the bathroom ended with in a day or two of using a cpap
Ending Daytime sleepiness took about a week. I just had cataract replaced and did not use a cpap for a week and started to get sleepy again.
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#18
RE: AHI means nothing
OP, I get what you're saying, and I'm 50% in agreement.

If we relied on just numbers, I wouldn't even be on a CPAP.

According to the numbers/data, my doctor said it's not even worth treating. And yet CPAP has changed my world! This is what "refreshed" feels like? I've been missing out on this all my life!!!

According to the numbers/data, my doctor said my "pressure is perfect and everything is fantastic thanks for the insurance money". But I was not getting a high enough pressure and my body was not happy about it! I was subconsciously pulling off my mask during sleep. It was NOT working.

Thanks to this group, I knew (not by looking at my numbers) that if I was not getting enough pressure (my Rx was 5cm) that I could turn up the pressure a bit and would receive better therapy. Yep! That worked!

Also looking at numbers, my ResMed produces a lower AHI than my DreamStation but it seems that I get equally restful sleep from both.

Numbers aren't everything.

But numbers can be meaningful and helpful.
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#19
RE: AHI means nothing
Reading all these posts has been an amazing help to me as well and thanks Sleep Rider and all of you guy's. I have come to the conclusion that I well never have a totally perfect, night after night, good nights sleep, because like you said, every night is different, everyone is different. If your in the middle of a very stressful event in your life, cpap therapy isn't going to fix that. There are so many other factors. 

How I can tell is when I wake up, my brain feels clear, uncluttered, and focused. Recently on Dr. Oz, a sleep specialist was talking about when you sleep, spinal fluid clears out all the 'plaques' in the brain, cleans it up so to speak.
When this does not happen over a long period for whatever reason, can lead to dementia. Obviously if you can't breath freely then that well contribute greatly to that problem. It seems my problem is exhaling, no matter what pressures I use. Someone mentioned post nasal drip as a potential cause of that. But I don't want to take a prescription drug for that.
Also my machine is not supported by Oscar.
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#20
RE: AHI means nothing
Well, I learned something. I was going to call BS on the role of cerebrospinal fluid in removing plaque forming proteins from the brain, and sure enough, I was wrong. https://www.nih.gov/news-events/nih-rese...ears-brain
Sleeprider
Apnea Board Moderator
www.ApneaBoard.com

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