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AHI vs how I feel?
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Mark Douglas Offline

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Post: #1
AHI vs how I feel?
I have had AHI's of 0 and felt tired in the AM and elevated AHI (compared to my average) and felt great.
What is up with that?

I use my PAP machine nightly and I feel great!
Updated: Philips Respironics System One (60 Series)
RemStar BiPAP Auto with Bi-FlexModel 760P -
Rise Time x3 Fixed Bi-Level EPAP 9.0 IPAP 11.5 (cmH2O)
06-13-2015 07:31 PM
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zonk Offline

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Post: #2
RE: AHI vs how I feel?
AHI is a means to end, not end by itself ... something like that
An apnea scored when lasted at least 10 seconds or more, anything less 10 seconds not classified as an apnea
Too many of those events (less than 10 seconds) can be be disruptive and affects how you feel

A little higher AHI is nothing to worry about, might also indicate getting into deeper/REM sleep stages which are restorative sleep stages where you feel most rested

AHI 5 or below is normal but if AHI consistently higher, might indicate something is going on and require further investigation

Rightly or wrongly ... that is how I see it Coffee
06-13-2015 07:47 PM
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Mark Douglas Offline

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Posts: 513
Joined: Apr 2015

Machine: Sys 1 (60) RemStar BiPAP Auto with Bi-Flex 760P Auto Bi-Level (Variabl
Mask Type: Nasal mask
Mask Make & Model: PR Wisp
Humidifier: PR Sys One heated
CPAP Pressure: RiseTime 3 Fxd E-9.0 / I-11.5
CPAP Software: SleepyHead EncoreBasic

Other Comments: Hashimoto's thyroiditis.

Sex: Male
Location: SW Ohio

Post: #3
RE: AHI vs how I feel?
I have enabled the optional detections and there seems to be a boatload of micro-events not scored. Thoughts?

I use my PAP machine nightly and I feel great!
Updated: Philips Respironics System One (60 Series)
RemStar BiPAP Auto with Bi-FlexModel 760P -
Rise Time x3 Fixed Bi-Level EPAP 9.0 IPAP 11.5 (cmH2O)
06-13-2015 07:50 PM
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AshSF Offline

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Post: #4
RE: AHI vs how I feel?
That is why AHI is not the last word in feeling rested. And that is why sleep docs believe that an AHI below 5 is fine.

AHI is a proxy for 'was I starved of air last night and did I have any O2 desats'. The other part of the equation is sleep architecture. Sleep architecture comprises of:
1) Did you spend appropriate amount of sleep in all stages.
2) did you have any RERAs or Microarousals that knocked you out of a deeper sleep stage to a shallower one.
3) Did you have some other sleep disorders. Like PLMD.

An AHI < 5 is a necessary condition for a good sleep architecture but it's not a sufficient condition. Your machine also measures RERAs so you can also measure those.
Those will provide more info but they are still not the complete story. Without an EEG there is no way of knowing if there were multiple Microarousals involved in getting your 0.0 AHI.

So, don't sweat it by analyzing it too much.

Started APAP 4-20, Closed range to 7.5-14, then straight 8.0 w/ Aflex 3
RDI always below 1. But sleep much much better at straight pressure.
Started on F10, Tried Quattro Air successfully. Finally settled on P10.
06-14-2015 12:19 AM
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TyroneShoes Offline

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Post: #5
RE: AHI vs how I feel?
Since I never felt bad before I was in treatment for severe OSA, and never really felt "better" than "not feeling bad" after, I think that definitively proves that there is no one-to-one relationship between how you feel and your AHI, especially since AHI is not really even an accurate indicator of how severe the events you have might be.

There is some correlation, however, at least for many people; I just don't think we can assume that it tracks directly. And I think attempting to correlate the two might take one's eyes off the ball; if one is trying to connect how they feel to xPAP therapy numbers, there is a chance they can be missing the real, non-OSA reasons why they feel bad, which can also be a form of active denial or displacement.

But I didn't get the therapy to feel "better"; I got the therapy to be better, and healthier, and not fall asleep in meetings. And I didn't know it at the time, but I guess I got the therapy to let me sleep through the night without a forced pee break. Thumbs-up-2
06-14-2015 12:36 AM
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PaytonA Offline
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Post: #6
RE: AHI vs how I feel?
(06-14-2015 12:36 AM)TyroneShoes Wrote:  Since I never felt bad before I was in treatment for severe OSA, and never really felt "better" than "not feeling bad" after, I think that definitively proves that there is no one-to-one relationship between how you feel and your AHI, especially since AHI is not really even an accurate indicator of how severe the events you have might be.

There is some correlation, however, at least for many people; I just don't think we can assume that it tracks directly. And I think attempting to correlate the two might take one's eyes off the ball; if one is trying to connect how they feel to xPAP therapy numbers, there is a chance they can be missing the real, non-OSA reasons why they feel bad, which can also be a form of active denial or displacement.

But I didn't get the therapy to feel "better"; I got the therapy to be better, and healthier, and not fall asleep in meetings. And I didn't know it at the time, but I guess I got the therapy to let me sleep through the night without a forced pee break. Thumbs-up-2

Thumbs-up-2 Nice post. Agreed This was the best I could do since I can't find the Like button.

Best Regards,

PaytonA
06-14-2015 11:33 AM
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Mark Douglas Offline

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Machine: Sys 1 (60) RemStar BiPAP Auto with Bi-Flex 760P Auto Bi-Level (Variabl
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Other Comments: Hashimoto's thyroiditis.

Sex: Male
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Post: #7
RE: AHI vs how I feel?
(06-14-2015 12:19 AM)AshSF Wrote:  .............
Without EEG ...........

So, don't sweat it by analyzing it too much.

Analyzing is what I do/am LOL !

I guess it is time for an Open EEG project Wink

I use my PAP machine nightly and I feel great!
Updated: Philips Respironics System One (60 Series)
RemStar BiPAP Auto with Bi-FlexModel 760P -
Rise Time x3 Fixed Bi-Level EPAP 9.0 IPAP 11.5 (cmH2O)
06-14-2015 12:22 PM
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PaytonA Offline
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Post: #8
RE: AHI vs how I feel?
Mark,

Since you are of an analytical frame of mind, have you ever heard of over analyzing? Big Grin
06-14-2015 02:14 PM
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justMongo Offline

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Post: #9
RE: AHI vs how I feel?
(06-14-2015 12:22 PM)Mark Douglas Wrote:  I guess it is time for an Open EEG project Wink

You're late to the party.
http://openeeg.sourceforge.net/doc/

INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.
(This post was last modified: 06-14-2015 02:36 PM by justMongo.)
06-14-2015 02:36 PM
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SleepyWabbit Offline

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Post: #10
RE: AHI vs how I feel?
(06-14-2015 02:36 PM)justMongo Wrote:  
(06-14-2015 12:22 PM)Mark Douglas Wrote:  I guess it is time for an Open EEG project Wink

You're late to the party.
(Link to sourceforge that I'm not allowed to post yet because I'm too new)

Ohh, more data to over-analyze!! SHa_biggrin5
06-14-2015 04:14 PM
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