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APNEA Out of Control
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Mike208 Offline

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Location: South Carolina

Post: #1
APNEA Out of Control
Hi all. I'll try to make this short at first. I was diagnosed with apnea a couple years ago. My AHI's are around 70. I really didn't feel all that bad. I got tested because people told me I snored very loudly and it sounded like I stopped breathing. Anyway, I tried CPAP twice and failed. So, I was sent to a sleep apnea dentist for a dental device. Further testing there has shown a reduction in AHI's to around 24. The first one broke in December and a new one had to be made. Two weeks ago it was extended out as far as the posts will allow so the dentist has ordered longer posts. They aren't in yet. The problem is I feel no better. Actually, whether I use the device or not I pretty much feel the same when I wake. I can certainly tell that I have not had enough good sleep. What's funny is that I felt a lot better before I was ever diagnosed! Does that even make sense? My last visit with the dentist was tense. He could tell I was agitated. But he insisted that the appliance is not making things worse. he says if I am not feeling better that it has to be something else. Okay, what? I'm at my wits end because I need better sleep but this just isn't working.
03-16-2016 05:35 PM
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JudgeMental Offline

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Location: Florida USA

Post: #2
RE: APNEA Out of Control
Hi Mike. Welcome.
Dental devices have their place in our health care system. It is of my opinion that they will give some relief however, the relief from sleep apnea is the usually tried and true CPAP therapy. I understand that you have tried it before and I certainly would encourage you to give it your best attempt again. What was the reasoning of your CPAP trial failures before. Maybe the recent struggles that you are having with the denture device is a signal to go back with true honest efforts toward the CPAP. It sounds like the denture device is being of minimal help, if any, toward lowering your AHI numbers and good quality rest for you.

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(This post was last modified: 03-16-2016 06:02 PM by JudgeMental.)
03-16-2016 05:59 PM
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AlanE Offline

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Location: Southwest Florida

Post: #3
RE: APNEA Out of Control
Welcome

Speaking in general terms, Apnea that high probably will not be successfully treated enough by a dental device. Everyone is different but from what you said it helps but not nearly enough. 24 is a good deal lower than 70 but 24 is still high. What were the problems you encountered with CPAP?



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03-16-2016 06:01 PM
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PoolQ Offline

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Location: Sillicon Valley

Post: #4
RE: APNEA Out of Control
So an AHI of 24 is still too high, you should be below 5. So if you are being treated you are not being treated enough. Sleep Apnea can and often does go down hill quickly. You are fine and then not so good to rotten in a month or less. The less sleep you get the more rotten you will get (grumpy also).

I suggest to accept that now at least you do need CPAP, learn all you can about SA and the equipment, and get a machine. Your AHI of 24 is high enough to justify the machine. Get a copy of your report and see what kind of apnea you have, Obstructive, central, combination, hypopnea

We can help you get started and get the system tweaked to get you sleeping better. Just don't expect an overnight fix, it does happen, but not very often.
03-16-2016 06:20 PM
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Mike208 Offline

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Posts: 35
Joined: Mar 2016

Machine: AirSense 10 Autoset
Mask Type: Full face mask
Mask Make & Model: Resmed Airfit 10
Humidifier: unsure
CPAP Pressure: Supposed to be 10
CPAP Software: Not using software

Other Comments:

Sex: Male
Location: South Carolina

Post: #5
RE: APNEA Out of Control
Thank you for the welcome! I appreciate that. My problems with CPAP were that I would wake up constantly fighting to breathe. We tried different masks and settings on the machine but it didn't help. I would sleep better without it. I recently had what they call a papnap using the dental appliance while on CPAP and it showed good results. So we got another machine. But this ended with me waking to find my eyes, lips, face swollen beyond belief. When I reported that they didn't know what to think. But it was clear CPAP wasn't going to work for me. That's when I was referred to a surgeon in Charleston. He was reluctant to perform the surgery due to the shape of my palate and the narrow passageways in my nose and throat. He was not certain it would due much good and hated to put me through invasive surgery for nothing. That's when the dentist was suggested. On paper (computer) it shows the improvement but I certainly do not feel it. I do know that dental devices are not really recommended for apnea of my level but the sleep center thought it was worth a shot.
(03-16-2016 06:20 PM)PoolQ Wrote:  So an AHI of 24 is still too high, you should be below 5. So if you are being treated you are not being treated enough. Sleep Apnea can and often does go down hill quickly. You are fine and then not so good to rotten in a month or less. The less sleep you get the more rotten you will get (grumpy also).

I suggest to accept that now at least you do need CPAP, learn all you can about SA and the equipment, and get a machine. Your AHI of 24 is high enough to justify the machine. Get a copy of your report and see what kind of apnea you have, Obstructive, central, combination, hypopnea

We can help you get started and get the system tweaked to get you sleeping better. Just don't expect an overnight fix, it does happen, but not very often.


Yes, the sleep center has told me they don't consider the apnea treated even with the lower AHI's. But I just can not tolerate the CPAP. I have tried three times now.
(This post was last modified: 03-16-2016 06:29 PM by Mike208.)
03-16-2016 06:27 PM
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surferdude2 Offline

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Post: #6
RE: APNEA Out of Control
And in the meantime, do not sleep flat on your back since it makes apnea much worse.

Once you get back on CPAP therapy, get the free software (Sleepyhead) offered here by the link above and post a typical night's graphs and other info. There are some very well informed folks here that can help you get lined out to where you can adjust the therapy and make it work for you with the least amount of difficulty.

With rare exception, the info that folks here give you is superior to what you will get from any DME provider.

Dude
03-16-2016 06:31 PM
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Mike208 Offline

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Posts: 35
Joined: Mar 2016

Machine: AirSense 10 Autoset
Mask Type: Full face mask
Mask Make & Model: Resmed Airfit 10
Humidifier: unsure
CPAP Pressure: Supposed to be 10
CPAP Software: Not using software

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Sex: Male
Location: South Carolina

Post: #7
RE: APNEA Out of Control
(03-16-2016 06:31 PM)surferdude2 Wrote:  And in the meantime, do not sleep flat on your back since it makes apnea much worse.

Once you get back on CPAP therapy, get the free software (Sleepyhead) offered here by the link above and post a typical night's graphs and other info. There are some very well informed folks here that can help you get lined out to where you can adjust the therapy and make it work for you with the least amount of difficulty.

With rare exception, the info that folks here give you is superior to what you will get from any DME provider.

Dude


Thanks. I slip a foam cushion under my shirt to try to keep myself from rolling over onto my back. But, I often wake up half laying on it.
03-16-2016 06:34 PM
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surferdude2 Offline

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Machine: ResMed S9 AutoSet
Mask Type: Full face mask
Mask Make & Model: Mirage Quattro & Optilife
Humidifier: ResMed H5i @ #3 if nose breathing & #5 if mouth breathing
CPAP Pressure: 12 ~ 20 & 11 ~12 if nasal mask
CPAP Software: ResScan SleepyHead

Other Comments: Late stage 2 emphysema

Sex: Male
Location: Mousetown, Southern Illinois

Post: #8
RE: APNEA Out of Control
I always loved sleeping on my back so I rigged a pillow against my upper back so I could roll against it and let my lower body twist so it was nearly like sleeping on my back but still keep my head sideways on the pillow. That worked very well for me until I finally got to where side sleeping didn't bother me so much. The cure was to get a memory foam mattress topper and a pillow approved for side sleepers.

Dude
03-16-2016 07:19 PM
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Sleeprider Online
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Machine: Resmed Aircurve 10 Vauto
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Post: #9
RE: APNEA Out of Control
(03-16-2016 06:27 PM)Mike208 Wrote:  Thank you for the welcome! I appreciate that. My problems with CPAP were that I would wake up constantly fighting to breathe. We tried different masks and settings on the machine but it didn't help. I would sleep better without it. I recently had what they call a papnap using the dental appliance while on CPAP and it showed good results. So we got another machine. But this ended with me waking to find my eyes, lips, face swollen beyond belief. When I reported that they didn't know what to think. But it was clear CPAP wasn't going to work for me. That's when I was referred to a surgeon in Charleston. He was reluctant to perform the surgery due to the shape of my palate and the narrow passageways in my nose and throat. He was not certain it would due much good and hated to put me through invasive surgery for nothing. That's when the dentist was suggested. On paper (computer) it shows the improvement but I certainly do not feel it. I do know that dental devices are not really recommended for apnea of my level but the sleep center thought it was worth a shot.
(03-16-2016 06:20 PM)PoolQ Wrote:  So an AHI of 24 is still too high, you should be below 5. So if you are being treated you are not being treated enough. Sleep Apnea can and often does go down hill quickly. You are fine and then not so good to rotten in a month or less. The less sleep you get the more rotten you will get (grumpy also).

I suggest to accept that now at least you do need CPAP, learn all you can about SA and the equipment, and get a machine. Your AHI of 24 is high enough to justify the machine. Get a copy of your report and see what kind of apnea you have, Obstructive, central, combination, hypopnea

We can help you get started and get the system tweaked to get you sleeping better. Just don't expect an overnight fix, it does happen, but not very often.


Yes, the sleep center has told me they don't consider the apnea treated even with the lower AHI's. But I just can not tolerate the CPAP. I have tried three times now.

You failed CPAP, and the next level is Bilevel with separate inhalation and exhale pressures. There may be a reason you have not found comfort with PAP therapy. Your next machine should be capable of producing data that shows why you're not comfortable or are struggling to breath. Go back and use your history with CPAP to get bilevel. You may or may not need a sleep test, but if you do get a sleep test, you want to watch for complex apnea that has both obstructive and central events. This would explain why CPAP was ineffective.

What is your insurance situation. Your copay and deductibles may dictate how to approach this problem to minimize personal expense.

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03-16-2016 07:30 PM
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PoolQ Offline

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CPAP Software: SleepyHead

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Sex: Male
Location: Sillicon Valley

Post: #10
RE: APNEA Out of Control
Agree. I had lots of trouble sleeping with CPAP and found lots of things that I was sensitive to, but never knew about.
I cannot exhale into pressure, so now I use BiPAP and cannot use nasal pillows, I have to have a large area in the mask to exhale into
I like low temperature air
I like zero added humidity.
If the pressure is under 5.6 then it feel like I don't get enough air.
Plus several others

The point is that unless you changed everything that can be changed and tried all the different machines and tried several types of masks, you really don't know if you can tolerate CPAP. You only know that you cannot tolerate what you or your Doctor/DME tried.

Oh and used sleephead and posted your data and everyone here ran out of suggestions.

Think hard about it and see what you are willing to try to get better sleep.
03-16-2016 07:42 PM
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