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Advice on move to Full Face Mask
#1
Advice on move to Full Face Mask
     Dont-know I've been using a Nasal Mask for over five years now (ResMed N20 last year or so) and very happy with the results.  However I get Hay Fever and it takes some time in the summer unblocking my nose before I can start treatment / go to sleep.

Recently I have been using a Nasal Spray (Sinex) to help the unblocking which worked fine.  However my Doctor suggested that this was not a viable solution because of a 'rebound effect' on the veins in my nose associated with Sinex (and other similar products).  I have instead started washing nasal cavities before bed with saline pump with variable success.

Consequently I have bought a Full Face Mask (ResMed F20) in the hope that this would solve the problem.  The results are a bit weird.  

Mask Leaks wake me up.  I can probably sort these out but any advice would be welcome.  A particular problem is that if my chin drops towards my chest then a leak is guaranteed as the bottom of the mask becomes separated from the face somewhat.

The pressure in the Mask feels fierce.  It can force air into my mouth which needs to be expelled.  Of course this wakes me up too.

The above happen a few times a night and wake me, so I am not as rested as I would like.  Last night I started with the N20 mask, moved to the F20 mask when my nose blocked and then back to the N20 when my nose opened up again.  I don't recommend this. Far to much fiddling about.

I have checked my ResMed Autostart S9 settings in case the Full Face Mask needed to be set up separately on the machine.  This does no appear to be the case.  Pressure settings seem the same for either mask - min pressure of 6 max of 20.  


If anybody has any guidance on this situation I would be very glad to receive it.
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#2
RE: Advice on move to Full Face Mask
I've used the ResMed F20 mask myself and there was a year long attempt to get it to fit right and not leak. For myself, I found it to not be a good choice. You may have fit and leak control issues with the F20.

I think your S9 should have a mask type selector. It may make but little difference but figured I'd mention it.

Have you tried any pillow for masks like the ResMed P10? Some users state the P10 can help open nasal passages. It's a pretty minimal mask, it might be worth a try.
Dave

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INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEBSITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.
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#3
RE: Advice on move to Full Face Mask
If the Sinex you are using is the one with Oxymetazoline Hcl 0.05%. This is the same thing as Afrin. It very dangerous and addictive. If you use it more than 3 days it can cause bad insomnia. The doc is correct the rebound is real and awful. Stop using it as fast as possible.

I use Fluticasone Propionate 50 mcg, which compares to Flonase Allergy Relief. The generic is fine. I use 1 puff per nare about 45 min - 1 hour before bed. Its not addictive and recommended by my Allergist. I also take a Zertex every day for non winter months.

This brings me to have your doctor recommend an Allergist to see. Get the full tests its well worth it. Helped me alot.

I only use FFM if I am sick and if i need to.
Thank you,
Brent aka Factor

Just a Regular guy.
My untreated AHI was 87.  You can do it hang in there.
"You can if you will"   Jerry Kramer

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#4
RE: Advice on move to Full Face Mask
Quote:A particular problem is that if my chin drops towards my chest then a leak is guaranteed as the bottom of the mask becomes separated from the face somewhat.

This is pretty common.  I think some wear one that is more under the jaw.

I found the one I had heard of Knightsbridge DUAL BAND
Anti Snoring Chin Strap

Search google for that one.
Thank you,
Brent aka Factor

Just a Regular guy.
My untreated AHI was 87.  You can do it hang in there.
"You can if you will"   Jerry Kramer

Got OSCAR?
Organize Charts
Optimizing Therapy

My Story
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#5
RE: Advice on move to Full Face Mask
On the screen shot.  Your therapy is not optimized.  Is this a normal day for you OR is this with the FFM?

Can you post a screenshot of what is considered a normal night for you?  Use the View > take screenshot OR F12 key to get it.


Lastly the machine you have is really old you might see if the NHS will give you a newer one.  If so ask for a ResMed Airsense 10 Autoset.

oh and 
Welcome
Thank you,
Brent aka Factor

Just a Regular guy.
My untreated AHI was 87.  You can do it hang in there.
"You can if you will"   Jerry Kramer

Got OSCAR?
Organize Charts
Optimizing Therapy

My Story
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#6
RE: Advice on move to Full Face Mask
(09-22-2021, 11:16 AM)Alan Speed Wrote: Mask Leaks wake me up.  I can probably sort these out but any advice would be welcome.  A particular problem is that if my chin drops towards my chest then a leak is guaranteed as the bottom of the mask becomes separated from the face somewhat.
I use the F20 and have the same problem if I don't wear my soft cervical collar. Either a soft cervical collar or chin strap will keep your mouth from opening to the point that the lower seal is broken. The cervical collar has the additional advantage of controlling positional apnea.

Other than that I have no leak problems with the F20 but, of course, everyone's face is different. Read the mask primer from the link below. It may provide some help.

I agree your settings are not optimized. It appears you need a higher minimum pressure and my benefit from EPR but more data will be helpful.






















o
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INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.

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#7
RE: Advice on move to Full Face Mask
I'm no expert on apnea treatment but I have had allergies for a long time.   My allergist has me on Montelukast 10 mg (generic version of Singulair, by prescription) once a day plus Azelastine nasal spray (by prescription) 2x/day plus Nasonex (or equivalent, like Flonase) 1x/day over-the-counter nasal spray.    These are all much better products for long-term (even a few months, during hayfever season) use because they don't produce rebound problems.   Consider asking a doctor about whether they'd be appropriate prescriptions for you.   

You can buy the Nasonex or a similar product called Flonase in any drug store.    They are low-dose steroid medications.  They take a few days to build up to active strength and you have to use them daily (in your case, during the hayfever season).    Lots of the drug store chains and big box stores (like Costco) have their own versions of these.    They aren't very expensive.

Treating your allergies might be easier than solving the mask problem.   And, even if you solve the mask problem, treating your allergies might be a good thing.
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#8
RE: Advice on move to Full Face Mask
I can only use full face masks and its a long story, but that has also meant that I try the whole spectrum of full face masks, both with Resmed and Dreamwear brands.
Like you, I too have nasal congestion issues and using sinex was in my experience the worst thing that I ever tried because it took me about six months to get rid of the "REBOUND" effect, so I moved on to newer over the counter steroid sprays that do not have a rebound effect, like Flonase and that solved my first problem.
As for the result of my trials with full face masks, this is what I found:

Front tube air delivers air directly over the mouth and that is not a pleasant sensation. A bit like sticking your head out the car window trying to get a shuteye while speeding down the highway. So I know those types wouldn't work for me, not only because of its unpleasant sensation, but also because of it forcing air down my throat causing Aerophagia.

Frame type masks. These deliver air through a frame with the tube positioned above the head. This indirect air delivery is considerably more tolerable than direct frontal delivery .
Unfortunately there aren't a lot of choices for this type other than Dreamwear full face or Resmed F30i and both are pricey in comparison with other types.

I found Resmed F30i to be very comfortable to wear while it did not interfere with my field of vision (could comfortably read a book etc while wearing it), however testing it for 30 days, I found that it was hard to stop it from leaking, unless I wore it very tight.

The only full face mask that I finally went back to, was the Dreamwear full face which comes in Small, Medium and Large cushions as well as frames. I find that it seals better than the resmed F30i and its design is very similar to the resmed, maybe just not as comfortable to wear due to the cushion silicon being of a slightly different composition.

Good luck finding your full face. BTW Amazon Prime offers the best deals , especially because of their awesome no questions asked return policy, something you may wish to consider when shopping for your next mask.
.
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_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
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#9
RE: Advice on move to Full Face Mask
Thanks
Hi David,

Thanks for the helpful advice and sincere apologies for not responding sooner.  My original post coincided with leaving on holiday (Hadrian’s Wall) so it has taken a few days to get back to civilisation.

Anyway, really helpful points you raise.  I think I might have sidetracked myself with the FFM and will be looking to control my allergies first.  If that does not work then back to the FFM and pick up your advice.

This website really is the best and it’s thanks to people like you.

Best Wishes

Alan
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#10
RE: Advice on move to Full Face Mask
Thanks
Hi Factor,

Thanks for the reply, it was really helpful.  The Sinex issue clearly needs to be solved so I will start with that.  Hopefully that will obviate the need for FFM too.  Anyway I bought some fluticasone propionate today and will take it from there.

Thanks also for the mention of my cpap settings.  I cannot respond to these right now as I’m on holiday and away from my desktop Mac which I need to download OSCAR info.  But I will revert in two weeks time.

In the meantime I’ll grapple with the allergies.

Best Wishes

Alan Speed
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