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Air escaping from mouth with XPAP
#1

I use a nasal pillow and chinstrap with my AutoBiPAP. The problem is that as the pressure is increased (IPAP) in an attempt to keep my airway open, the air is forced out of my mouth during sleep. I've tightened the chinstrap but, still have the problem.

I also have tried on every full mask that the distributor carried and the airway escaped from them too.

Even at 10 IPAP the air escapes from my mouth.

Has anyone else had this problem? If I am different from the average sufferer in any regard, it might be that I constrict, for lack of a better term, apparently in response to not getting air. My neck, shoulder and jaw is all very tense and sore when getting up in the morning from straining. It makes me wonder if I am actually working against the machine by tensing up.
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#2
You may not be similar to me but my XPAP air wants to exit my mouth any chance it gets and that is very disrupting to me so I prevent that with 2 methods. I do not tense up to maintain the closed mouth. Instead I use a plain wide chin strap that provides a balanced pressure to keep my jaw from falling open. By balanced I mean it does not force my jaw back or forward in some unnatural position. I let the strap do all the work and totally relax my jaw against it. I first started out with it quite snug and over time adjusted it to a less snug more gentle tightness that still works.
The second thing I do is place my tongue against the roof of my mouth and gently suck it up into a "stuck" position against the roof such that if the jaw drops a tiny bit the tongue stays in place. This acts as a barrier and prevents air pushing through to your lips and the chipmunk cheeks that you can get when wearing a chin strap. I haven't read whether others have trouble training their tongue to do this but it was easy for me once I understood the concept and it is very effective.

You need both methods to control the air and direct it down your windpipe.

I personally think the tongue is really doing the job and the chin strap is just keeping the jaw controlled so as to not pull the tongue out of position. I think that is why I can use the chin strap a little looser and still be good.
if you can't decide then you don't have enough data.
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#3
I had the same problem and switched to a fullface mask - problem solved for me
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#4
We are all different. For me the FFM was the answer. Still I use the tongue technique described by MobileBasset.
I would guess it's a technique used by a majority.
(Perhaps in the spirit of our old friend RetiredGuy, we should take a poll?)

Tensing up is not good. PAP is intended to be a comfortable experience conducive to restorative sleep.
(Even though the equipment was probably invented for the Spanish Inquisition.)
[Image: inquis.gif]

INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.
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#5
(08-17-2015, 06:25 PM)MobileBasset Wrote: You may not be similar to me but my XPAP air wants to exit my mouth any chance it gets and that is very disrupting to me so I prevent that with 2 methods. I do not tense up to maintain the closed mouth. Instead I use a plain wide chin strap that provides a balanced pressure to keep my jaw from falling open. By balanced I mean it does not force my jaw back or forward in some unnatural position. I let the strap do all the work and totally relax my jaw against it. I first started out with it quite snug and over time adjusted it to a less snug more gentle tightness that still works.
The second thing I do is place my tongue against the roof of my mouth and gently suck it up into a "stuck" position against the roof such that if the jaw drops a tiny bit the tongue stays in place. This acts as a barrier and prevents air pushing through to your lips and the chipmunk cheeks that you can get when wearing a chin strap. I haven't read whether others have trouble training their tongue to do this but it was easy for me once I understood the concept and it is very effective.

You need both methods to control the air and direct it down your windpipe.

I personally think the tongue is really doing the job and the chin strap is just keeping the jaw controlled so as to not pull the tongue out of position. I think that is why I can use the chin strap a little looser and still be good.


MB,

Thank you so much! I will work on both of those techniques!
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#6
you might look into the Amara View mask, different concept for a FFM. It does not have "bellows" for the face seal and I have found that I have to use more strap pressure to keep it in place. This should resist your pressure better than the bellows type of FFM. The Amara does take some getting used to and to learn to adjust, but so far I love it
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#7
PoolQ, not wanting to hijack what is really a thread on air out of mouth - I also have tried the Amara View (only 3 nights) as an alternative to pillows in case I have a bad cold or just want a change, and have found it very difficult to nail down the correct strap setup such that I am woken 4-5x per night where I have to turn off the blower, reset, and then re-pressurise. If Paula wants an alternative it could be go its just that i have been spoilt by the simplicity of the P10 setup (now with a chin strap)
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#8
This is why I was suggesting the Amara view, the increased strap pressure to keep down mouth leaks. The mask itself is very picky about how it is put on. I tilt the mask away from my chin and put my nose in first, making sure I can breath through the thin flap with the breathing hole in it. then I rotate the mask chin onto my chin and snap the strap closed. With the simplex most of my leaks could be fixed by loosening the straps. WIth the Amara I had to tighten the straps if I had a leak. This takes some getting used to but, no pressure on the bridge of the nose, no covering the nose, and a very tight fit.

I have not gone over 12 with it but at that level I had zero leaks.
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#9
[quote='PoolQ' pid='127880' dateline='1440205421']
This is why I was suggesting the Amara view, the increased strap pressure to keep down mouth leaks. The mask itself is very picky about how it is put on. I tilt the mask away from my chin and put my nose in first, making sure I can breath through the thin flap with the breathing hole in it. then I rotate the mask chin onto my chin and snap the strap closed. With the simplex most of my leaks could be fixed by loosening the straps. WIth the Amara I had to tighten the straps if I had a leak. This takes some getting used to but, no pressure on the bridge of the nose, no covering the nose, and a very tight fit.

I have not gone over 12 with it but at that level I had zero leaks.



gee, i realize i don't even know how to post without a quote....
anyway, this does seem it belongs in this thread, although i am not replying to the last person.
i just switched from a respironics old M series, which was really noisy, but i didn't have a problem with my lips opening from air pressure, to a resmed s9, autoset. much quieter. i have the same min 7 max 15 pressures etc etc, did try the EPR but wondered if that was the cause, so turned it to off...but still the pressure from this machine blows my lips apart as soon as i start to fall asleep....i don't understand how anyone can keep their tongue in an involuntary position....as soon as i relax to go to sleep,, of course it moves..any ideas as to why my lips stay closed with the m series but get blown open with the S9?
i am pretty new to all this, and self diagnosing so.....
onward!
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#10
magicis,
At top of page to the right side, click on HELP. You will find a lot of how to subjects.
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INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.




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