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AirFit P10 vent blocked?
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AshSF Offline

Advisory Members

Posts: 356
Joined: Oct 2014

Machine: PRS1 D560TS
Mask Type: Nasal pillows
Mask Make & Model: ResMed P10, Bkup: Airfit F10 & Quattro Air
Humidifier: PRS1 60 series with Heated Tube
CPAP Pressure: 8 - 8 w/ Aflex 3
CPAP Software: SleepyHead

Other Comments: Using APAP mode with fixed pressure

Sex: Male
Location:

Post: #71
RE: AirFit P10 vent blocked?
SH shows total leak rate for P10 To be 20Lpm on my straight 7.5 cm pressure PRS1 Auto. It is supposed to be more than that but it's lower than the designer leak rate. The designed leak rate at 4 cm is 20Lpm for P10. It could be a batch deviation in manufacturing. This will definitely throw a curve in Resmed's unintentional leak rate calc.

But I do feel rested and refreshed in the morning. If you are somehow re breathing CO2, your body will start hyperventilating and will show an increase in respiratory rate and maybe tidal volume. And pretty soon you will rip off that mask too.

If SH is not showing that, then you are okay. No co2 danger then.

My 2 cents. YMMV.

Started APAP 4-20, Closed range to 7.5-14, then straight 8.0 w/ Aflex 3
RDI always below 1. But sleep much much better at straight pressure.
Started on F10, Tried Quattro Air successfully. Finally settled on P10.
04-16-2015 04:27 PM
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PaytonA Offline
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Posts: 3,013
Joined: Dec 2013

Machine: ResMed S9 VPAP Auto
Mask Type: Full face mask
Mask Make & Model: Resmed Mirage Quattro
Humidifier: H5i(distilled-top up)
CPAP Pressure: VAuto MinE14.0 MaxI 20.6 PS4.0
CPAP Software: ResScan SleepyHead

Other Comments:

Sex: Male
Location: Orange County,California

Post: #72
RE: AirFit P10 vent blocked?
(04-16-2015 04:27 PM)AshSF Wrote:  SH shows total leak rate for P10 To be 20Lpm on my straight 7.5 cm pressure PRS1 Auto. It is supposed to be more than that but it's lower than the designer leak rate. The designed leak rate at 4 cm is 20Lpm for P10. It could be a batch deviation in manufacturing. This will definitely throw a curve in Resmed's unintentional leak rate calc.

Actually it will not since Resmed does not use the design vent rate in their unintentional leak rate calculation.
04-16-2015 05:03 PM
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JimPap Offline

Members

Posts: 6
Joined: Jun 2015

Machine: Phillips System 1 Bilevel
Mask Type: Nasal pillows
Mask Make & Model: ResMed P10
Humidifier: unsure model number
CPAP Pressure: variable
CPAP Software: SleepyHead

Other Comments:

Sex: Male
Location:

Post: #73
RE: AirFit P10 vent blocked?
Add me to the list of users who are experiencing vent blocking on my P10.

For comparison purposes, I have three P10s. After the first two had reduced air flow through the mesh exhaust, I thought that maybe that was caused by using too hot water (not scalding but hot to the touch) while cleaning them and that the mesh may have melted together. So I bought a third one. I paid particular attention to the airflow through the vent when it arrived and was very careful not to run hot water when cleaning but to only use very tempid water. It also became blocked up.

Since I've been walking around in a brain fog and drowsy off and on for the last few months, last night I went back to a Respironics Mirage mask. Very uncomfortable compared to the P10 but I woke up feeling pretty good this morning.

I do like the comfort of the P10 and have been thinking about drilling a couple of tiny vent holes through the mesh. Figured I could use the Marage as a guide as to how much venting.
06-10-2015 07:00 AM
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PaytonA Offline
Wiki Editor
Monitors

Posts: 3,013
Joined: Dec 2013

Machine: ResMed S9 VPAP Auto
Mask Type: Full face mask
Mask Make & Model: Resmed Mirage Quattro
Humidifier: H5i(distilled-top up)
CPAP Pressure: VAuto MinE14.0 MaxI 20.6 PS4.0
CPAP Software: ResScan SleepyHead

Other Comments:

Sex: Male
Location: Orange County,California

Post: #74
RE: AirFit P10 vent blocked?
Drilling not a great idea. There have been methods described on the forum for unclogging the vent diffuser. I do not remember what they were (I use a mask that does not have all of those silly little problems Big Grin Just kidding). You can search for the answer or perhaps one of the cult members Rolleyes will give us the answer.

Best Regards,

PaytonA
06-10-2015 10:10 AM
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AshSF Offline

Advisory Members

Posts: 356
Joined: Oct 2014

Machine: PRS1 D560TS
Mask Type: Nasal pillows
Mask Make & Model: ResMed P10, Bkup: Airfit F10 & Quattro Air
Humidifier: PRS1 60 series with Heated Tube
CPAP Pressure: 8 - 8 w/ Aflex 3
CPAP Software: SleepyHead

Other Comments: Using APAP mode with fixed pressure

Sex: Male
Location:

Post: #75
RE: AirFit P10 vent blocked?
As a P10 'cult' member Smile, this is what I would recommend.

1) install sleepyhead software on your computer.
2) load up data from your machines SD card into the software.
3) Evaluate the total leak rate and unintentional leak rate in SLeepyhead graphs.
4) If the total leak rate is consistently over 18L/minute, you have nothing to worry about on the account of mesh not venting.

I was one of the people who was walking around foggy after moving to P10 nasal pillows from an F10 FFM. In my case, it turned out that the pressure changes were bothering me and causing the fog. So I went to straight pressure with Aflex on. Since that day, the fog went away and a new dawn of clarity came.

That has been my experience. YMMV.

Started APAP 4-20, Closed range to 7.5-14, then straight 8.0 w/ Aflex 3
RDI always below 1. But sleep much much better at straight pressure.
Started on F10, Tried Quattro Air successfully. Finally settled on P10.
06-10-2015 10:30 AM
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OpineCone Offline

Preferred Members

Posts: 46
Joined: Feb 2015

Machine: ResMed S9 Auto
Mask Type: Nasal pillows
Mask Make & Model: ResMed AirFit P10 Large
Humidifier: ResMed H5i
CPAP Pressure: 11 - 17
CPAP Software: ResScan SleepyHead

Other Comments: Mask straps spread widely to fit large head, worn under PureSom Ruby chinstrap for stability

Sex: Male
Location: Massachusetts USA

Post: #76
RE: AirFit P10 vent blocked?
(06-10-2015 07:00 AM)JimPap Wrote:  Add me to the list of users who are experiencing vent blocking on my P10.

For comparison purposes, I have three P10s. After the first two had reduced air flow through the mesh exhaust, I thought that maybe that was caused by using too hot water (not scalding but hot to the touch) while cleaning them and that the mesh may have melted together. So I bought a third one. I paid particular attention to the airflow through the vent when it arrived and was very careful not to run hot water when cleaning but to only use very tempid water. It also became blocked up.

Hi JimPap. Welcome to the board!

Thank you for posting information about your experience with blockages of P10 vents, which has been a hot topic on this board as indicated by the large number of posts.

You have not told us how long you have been using the P10, and so it might be that the blockages you have experienced were the results of gradual build-up of contaminants in the micro-mesh filters. However, a while ago I personally experienced what seemed to be a normally functioning P10 one night becoming seriously blocked by the next night, and so I would guess you are not describing a gradual reduction in air flow over periods of several weeks but rather a quick deterioration in performance.

Post #38 in this thread is a detailed investigative report of the vent blockage phenomenon. It describes various evidence that the micro-mesh vents of the P10 do not dry out as easily as one might assume and that the reported air blockages are being caused by water temporarily trapped in the micro-mesh fabric. Attempts to blow the water out of the vents are futile because the water is securely held in the tiny spaces between the fabric fibers by surface tension. The only way that the water can escape from the micro-mesh is by evaporation.

The post includes the following recommendations, which you might want to try:

1. Clean your mask components well in advance of going to bed, so that water has plenty of time to evaporate from the filter before you use it.

2. Try not to run the CPAP warm-up function and then delay going to bed, so as to avoid condensation in the hose and/or mask, which may get into the mask vent.

3. If, in spite of your best efforts, you find that your P10 vents are blocked, consider it almost certain that you have moisture trapped in the micro-mesh fabric. Remove the pillows from the frame. Don’t let your naked eyes fool you into believing that there is are plastic films over the vents. Remember that there is no way to blow the moisture out of the vent, you must rely on evaporation. Gentle heat may help. If you have a hair dryer, gently blow warm air onto the vent and remember that you are only trying to accelerate the evaporation, you are not attempting to blow the water out of the vent, because you can’t.

JimPap, in your case, since now you have three P10s, if you experience another blockage I would suggest switching your current pillows to another frame which has had plenty of time to dry out since it was last cleaned.

If you have another vent blockage incident that you can't immediately solve, please post again.
06-10-2015 11:16 AM
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JimPap Offline

Members

Posts: 6
Joined: Jun 2015

Machine: Phillips System 1 Bilevel
Mask Type: Nasal pillows
Mask Make & Model: ResMed P10
Humidifier: unsure model number
CPAP Pressure: variable
CPAP Software: SleepyHead

Other Comments:

Sex: Male
Location:

Post: #77
RE: AirFit P10 vent blocked?
(06-10-2015 10:30 AM)AshSF Wrote:  As a P10 'cult' member Smile, this is what I would recommend.

1) install sleepyhead software on your computer.
2) load up data from your machines SD card into the software.
3) Evaluate the total leak rate and unintentional leak rate in SLeepyhead graphs.
4) If the total leak rate is consistently over 18L/minute, you have nothing to worry about on the account of mesh not venting.

I was one of the people who was walking around foggy after moving to P10 nasal pillows from an F10 FFM. In my case, it turned out that the pressure changes were bothering me and causing the fog. So I went to straight pressure with Aflex on. Since that day, the fog went away and a new dawn of clarity came.

That has been my experience. YMMV.

I've been on cpap since last October and switched to the P10s in early December....and have been using Sleepyhead for most of that time.

Just going back a few days, on Saturday and Sunday nights, the reduced venting P10 shows a 90% leak rate of "0" and a max of "1". Last night with the Amara mask (misidentified it earlier) I got a 90% leak rate of 4 with a max of 8. Reviewing the overview chart, I can just about tell which days I either switched or cleaned P10s. What I'm finding is that even with a mask that's been drying for several days, there is reduced air flow. Maybe in some cases moisture plays a problem but there may be other things at play here.

In any event, I used a safety pin to add 4 tiny holes to one of the mask. We'll see how it goes tonight.
06-10-2015 06:47 PM
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JimPap Offline

Members

Posts: 6
Joined: Jun 2015

Machine: Phillips System 1 Bilevel
Mask Type: Nasal pillows
Mask Make & Model: ResMed P10
Humidifier: unsure model number
CPAP Pressure: variable
CPAP Software: SleepyHead

Other Comments:

Sex: Male
Location:

Post: #78
RE: AirFit P10 vent blocked?
(06-10-2015 11:16 AM)OpineCone Wrote:  ...snip...

Hi JimPap. Welcome to the board!

Thank you for posting information about your experience with blockages.

Post #38 in this thread is a detailed investigative report ...

Thanks for posting. I'll take a look at #38.

Having 3 P10s, what I've done in the last couple of months is wash and dry the two older ones (being sure that they're dry after a couple of days) and attempted to blow through the disfussion screen and compared that to a new P10. There still was a significant difference. What is also odd, is on the older mask, one side would vent better than the other side. Given that the mask were thoroughly cleaned and dried, I'm a little suspect as to the problem being in part due to moisture.
As to how often it comes on, one night I'm breathing fine and the next it's blocked up.
Although daily cleaning is recommended by ResMed, I'm not convinced that doing so would return the ventilation mesh to like new condition.
06-10-2015 07:00 PM
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AshSF Offline

Advisory Members

Posts: 356
Joined: Oct 2014

Machine: PRS1 D560TS
Mask Type: Nasal pillows
Mask Make & Model: ResMed P10, Bkup: Airfit F10 & Quattro Air
Humidifier: PRS1 60 series with Heated Tube
CPAP Pressure: 8 - 8 w/ Aflex 3
CPAP Software: SleepyHead

Other Comments: Using APAP mode with fixed pressure

Sex: Male
Location:

Post: #79
RE: AirFit P10 vent blocked?
(06-10-2015 06:47 PM)JimPap Wrote:  I've been on cpap since last October and switched to the P10s in early December....and have been using Sleepyhead for most of that time.

Just going back a few days, on Saturday and Sunday nights, the reduced venting P10 shows a 90% leak rate of "0" and a max of "1". Last night with the Amara mask (misidentified it earlier) I got a 90% leak rate of 4 with a max of 8. Reviewing the overview chart, I can just about tell which days I either switched or cleaned P10s. What I'm finding is that even with a mask that's been drying for several days, there is reduced air flow. Maybe in some cases moisture plays a problem but there may be other things at play here.

In any event, I used a safety pin to add 4 tiny holes to one of the mask. We'll see how it goes tonight.
JP: You may be mixing unintentional leak rate and total leak rate. You may not be seeing the 'Total Leak' rate in sleepyhead. Since your machine reports it, you should switch it on the sleepyhead leak rate graph by right clicking on the graph.

A low or zero Unintentional leak rate is preferred. It shows your mask is sealing well.

An extremely low or zero total leak rate can be deadly. Every mask has an intentional leak rate built into its design to make sure CO2 washes out and no rebreathing occurs. As long as total leak rate is above 18Lpm, you are ok.

I am quoting this 18Lpm figure because this is the lowest no. I have seen for a mask in literature at 4cm pressure. If they can sell such a mask, the leak rate must be sufficient to prevent bad effects.
06-10-2015 08:30 PM
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OpineCone Offline

Preferred Members

Posts: 46
Joined: Feb 2015

Machine: ResMed S9 Auto
Mask Type: Nasal pillows
Mask Make & Model: ResMed AirFit P10 Large
Humidifier: ResMed H5i
CPAP Pressure: 11 - 17
CPAP Software: ResScan SleepyHead

Other Comments: Mask straps spread widely to fit large head, worn under PureSom Ruby chinstrap for stability

Sex: Male
Location: Massachusetts USA

Post: #80
RE: AirFit P10 vent blocked?
(06-10-2015 07:00 PM)JimPap Wrote:  What is also odd, is on the older mask, one side would vent better than the other side.

In my experience, it is difficult to be sure whether one side is really venting better than the other, or whether a small leak from one nostril is creating an illusion of an imbalance. For a while I was pretty sure that one side of my mask was venting better, but then I increased my efforts to detect and stop even very small leaks and now I think my vents are well balanced.

Also, I would not be surprised if some masks vent better on one side than the other right from the start. I believe it is inevitable that some defects will slip past quality control and into the hands of customers.
06-10-2015 10:23 PM
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