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Am I not using the tongue method correctly for inside the mouth leaks?
#1
Am I not using the tongue method correctly for inside the mouth leaks?
Everything is going great with my therapy, but I have one issue I'm trying to work out.  

I'm getting inside the mouth leaks from the side the tongue.  It seems to be related to amount of pressure behind the tongue, and the stage of sleep.  

It happens in the early morning about 2 hours before I should be waking up, and that is when my REM sleep is the heaviest.  

So, I assume these air push leaks from the side of the tongue happen when my tongue relaxes and cannot keep the air blocked and some minor to greater leaks occur.  

Is  this natural and inevitable?  Not fixable or maybe something I'm not doing right?  I've notice that it's most severe in supine position, and I would say that's the  position gravity would act on the tongue the  strongest to bring it down when the tongue relaxes for REM.

Weirdly, if I stay on my left, leaks does not happen.  But, on my right it does.  

Any advice?
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#2
RE: Am I not using the tongue method correctly for inside the mouth leaks?
It took me months to get the tongue technique down. Practice was the key.
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#3
RE: Am I not using the tongue method correctly for inside the mouth leaks?
As we age, it may be inevitable that we lose a certain amount of muscle control in our jaw, mouth and control of our tongue, even if we have perfected the "tongue suck technique".

I've used this method for approximately 7 years with great success. But every now and then, my tongue slips out of place and causes air to escape. This happens if I land on by back for any length of time.

One exercise that I use strengthen tongue and throat muscles is to place your tongue to the roof of your mouth with tip of tongue right behind front teeth.
Now slowly slide tip of tongue toward the back of your throat.
Now hold for a count of 8, then slide tongue forward. Repeat a few times.
You will feel the tightening of muscles.
What's nice about this exercise is that you can do it almost anywhere and no one would even know. It takes two to three months to notice a difference.
OpalRose
Apnea Board Administrator
http://www.ApneaBoard.com


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#4
RE: Am I not using the tongue method correctly for inside the mouth leaks?
no advice, just commiseration from a fellow sufferer.

plagued by lip leaks & dry mouth from air in mouth even without leaking. like you, usually in deepest sleep when everything is most relaxed; & while it happens to me in any position, I can count on it when supine.

do you sometimes snort when you laugh? does your palate stop air through your nose when you try to blow it? do you have similar problems in the dentist's chair?

some people have trained their tongue sufficiently while awake to carry through to sleep apparently but I can't master it.

I finally decided it's because my mouth is too small & tongue too big, which dentists & orthodontists have told me all my life.

do the sides of your tongue get sore from expanding against or between your teeth? tip of tongue curl at front teeth? find it easier to breathe by moving lower jaw forward to create an under-bite?

others can tell you how to systematically train your tongue. all I can suggest is try the various methods suggested on AB to avoid back sleeping. body pillows, tennis balls & backpacks come to mind.
  Shy   I have no particular qualifications or expertise with respect to the apnea/cpap/sleep related content of my posts beyond my own user experiences and what I've learned from others on this site. Each of us bears the burden of evaluating the validity and applicability of what we read here before acting on it.  
 
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#5
RE: Am I not using the tongue method correctly for inside the mouth leaks?
My story...I never had a problem until...

As I aged it became more a problem. I kept trying to relearn the technique. I don't have Gideon's patience.

I used a chinstrap for a long time.

Then I tried the Knightsbridge Dual Band cap...about a year and a half. I have a love-hate relationship with that strap.

Recently I've tried taping my mouth shut. It's doable with the right tape.
DaveL
compliant for 35 years



I'm just a cpap user like you. I don't give medical advice. Seek the advice of a physician before seeking treatment for medical conditions including sleep apnea. Sleep-well

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#6
RE: Am I not using the tongue method correctly for inside the mouth leaks?
DaveL, my conclusion is similar to your ageing theory. This has been a recent thing for me too - it's only been happening for a few weeks with no other discernible reason. Absolutely no issues before.
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#7
RE: Am I not using the tongue method correctly for inside the mouth leaks?
Thanks for all the helpful responses.

Tape is not effective for me because my issue is leaks that occur inside the mouth. Tape solves leaks that exit the mouth, but not the leaks the occur inside the mouth. That is the issue I'm trying to solve.

I think using a particular mask solved the issue for now. I went back to Respironics Wisp from Dreamwisp, and I don't get any leaks in any position. Weird, I know. I really have no idea what made the difference.

I think my biggest issue with CPAP therapy was being woken up throughout the night, and I cannot go back to sleep for 1-2hrs. I think this issue was solved by fixing my pressure so that I don't get sudden pressure rises that would wake me up. With my pressure fixed, i tried masks I had issue with and Wisp is actually working great.

For some of us, these pressure peaks are just as disruptive as the apneas.

This 1-2 hours of insomnia gap got significantly reduced by using my bed only for sleep (no more using my tablet/phone on my bed before sleep time), using Wisp mask, and using fixed pressure.

Since CPAP therapy by itself causes additional issues or isn't really that effective for some of us. I have to do certain things to improve my sleep quality that CPAP cannot help with. Using a cervical collar and sleeping on my side. Supine is generally bad no matter using CPAP or not. It will make a huge different in flow limitations.
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