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Anybody had surgery for OSA?
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RonWessels Offline

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Post: #11
RE: Anybody had surgery for OSA?
I am reminded of a joke.

Q. What is the difference between God and a surgeon.
A. God knows he is not a surgeon.
08-30-2013 04:46 PM
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someboy Offline

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Post: #12
RE: Anybody had surgery for OSA?
LOL ? sorry but i don't get the meaning of this joke
08-30-2013 05:06 PM
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Homerec130 Offline

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Post: #13
RE: Anybody had surgery for OSA?
(08-30-2013 04:46 PM)RonWessels Wrote:  I am reminded of a joke.

Q. What is the difference between God and a surgeon.
A. God knows he is not a surgeon.

I have also heard this one as difference between G~d and a fighter pilot.

G~d doesn't think he is a fighter pilot
08-30-2013 07:55 PM
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archangle Offline
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Post: #14
RE: Anybody had surgery for OSA?
(08-30-2013 05:06 PM)someboy Wrote:  LOL ? sorry but i don't get the meaning of this joke

Many surgeons think they are God. Delusions of grandeur.

They want to cut on everyone they see, even when the odds of it being in the patient's best interest are low. He thinks he's better than the rest, so the odds don't really apply to him. Patients go to great expense, effort and pain, and often end up with little improvement of their condition and end up with complications caused by the surgery.

For CPAP surgery, some people get benefits, some get no help, some end up worse off than before.

The surgeon tends to think every operation is a success, even if most of the patients would disagree. The surgeon may have his own definition of "success," such as a small reduction in AHI, but still needs CPAP.

Many on this board think the odds of getting much improvement are low, and the odds of ending up worse than before are high.

Yes, some patients do end up much better off. Some people win big at the lottery, too. You don't hear from the millions who lose the lottery, you hear from the one guy who hits the jackpot.

Get the free SleepyHead software here.
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If it's midnight and a DME tells you it's dark outside, go and check it yourself.
09-02-2013 04:22 AM
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DocWils Offline

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Post: #15
RE: Anybody had surgery for OSA?
As a surgeon (retired) I resent this continued calumny about our so-called God complex - every surgeon I know considers himself a skilled plumber (except the orthos, but they are jocks, through and through, and belong to the stone masons). Sure, some are martinets, for good reason - people die, and they want to make sure that no one can be the cause of it through screw ups. Hell, I ran a tight ship too, in the OR. I don't recall many I ever met who were cut happy, and those who were didn't get far. No surgeon likes to recommend surgery, because every time you cut into someone, things can go wrong - we know the risks, and frankly, we prefer the pill pushers get the blame when things go pear shaped, but we will cut if the best method to fix a given problem is cutting. As my old teacher used to say, "you can prescribe all the anti-biotics and bed rest you want - when that appendix has to come out, it has to come out".
09-02-2013 12:45 PM
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vsheline Offline

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Post: #16
RE: Anybody had surgery for OSA?
(09-02-2013 12:45 PM)DocWils Wrote:  As a surgeon (retired) I resent this continued calumny about our so-called God complex

Hi Doc,

My experience has only been in the USA.

I have heard a few stories of surgeons in the USA who are in private practice who are self-promoting salesmen, who have a huge financial self-interest in recommending surgery over other alternatives. Their practice is their business, and if they don't get enough customers their business will go broke.

Rather than having a god-complex, I think the problem is they consider job number 1 is "first, make the sale".

Actually (and the important thing is) I think most surgeons are NOT that way. I think most do not let self-interest override sensible recommendations for alternatives to surgery, when appropriate.

At the same time, it is sensible to be on the lookout to avoid those who behave more like salesmen than like counselors and physicians. In the USA, every insurance company I know of covers the cost of obtaining second opinions before surgery.

Membership in the Advisory Member group should not be understood as in any way implying medical expertise or qualification for advising Sleep Apnea patients concerning their treatment. The Advisory Member group provides advice and suggestions to Apnea Board administrators and staff on matters concerning Apnea Board operation and administrative policies - not on matters concerning treatment for Sleep Apnea. I think it is now too late to change the name of the group but I think Voting Member group would perhaps have been a more descriptive name for the group.
(This post was last modified: 09-02-2013 07:08 PM by vsheline.)
09-02-2013 06:44 PM
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Sleepster Offline
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Post: #17
RE: Anybody had surgery for OSA?
Just to show the other side of it, I saw a ENT surgeon years ago who didn't want to do endoscopic surgery on my sinuses, despite the fact that I had chronic sinusitus and became a mouth-breather within minutes of lying down. A few months later another ENT surgeon ran a CT scan, put me on antibiotics, decongestants, and antihistamines for two straight weeks followed by another CT scan.

With no improvement I had the surgery on a Wednesday. Went home and came back Friday morning to have the packing removed. Then I went to a restaurant for lunch. That was almost twenty years ago and now I rarely have a sinus infection or even need to take a decongestant. I do take an antihistamine every night before bed and also use an antihistamine nasal spray every day.

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INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.
09-02-2013 07:24 PM
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DocWils Offline

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Post: #18
RE: Anybody had surgery for OSA?
vsheline,

Those hucksters you describe, we have a name for them in the biz - plastic surgeons ;-).
09-03-2013 01:44 AM
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Homerec130 Offline

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Post: #19
RE: Anybody had surgery for OSA?
My ENT is also very hesitant to do surgery. In regard to my OSA, his opinion was surgery isn't an option as he feels there are more negatives than positives and there is no guarantee. During the process he did a CT scan and found I had a deviated septum. We also did a series of allergy tests and found I had several low grade (mostly tree pollen and grasses), but shots were not necessary. If I need to we treat OTC. This ruled out what my GP had thought in the past were sinus infections (were actually allergic reactions). We have decided not to fix the deviated septum as I have lived with it for so long. If we find a reason to later, we will. One thing I have noticed is I have less sinus problems since going on the hose. Part of this may be the fact that I am breathing filtered air at night and it blocks some of the pollen and dust in the air.
Just my 2 cents worth.
09-03-2013 11:46 AM
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Sleepster Offline
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Post: #20
RE: Anybody had surgery for OSA?
(09-03-2013 11:46 AM)psimpson130 Wrote:  This ruled out what my GP had thought in the past were sinus infections (were actually allergic reactions).

Allergic reactions can lead to sinus infections. OTC antihistamines and decongestants can help avoid the sinus infections. As can rinsing the sinuses with warm saline, something I highly recommend.

When the tissue that lines the sinus cavities becomes swollen (an allergic reaction in many cases) fluid can get trapped in the nooks and crannies where bacteria can grow. That's a sinus infection.

Endoscopic sinus surgery reduces the number of those nooks and crannies, making it less likely that you'll get an infection. In my case, far less likely. OTC drugs are still necessary to treat the symptoms of the allergies.

The occasional sinus infection can be successfully treated with antibiotics.

Or, as my ENT once told me, the purpose of sinus surgery is to turn sinuses that don't respond to antibiotics into sinuses that do.

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INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.
09-03-2013 07:52 PM
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