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Apneas or Cheyne-Stokes Respirations?
#11
RE: Apneas or Cheyne-Stokes Respirations?
A typical night, that's better than random.
Fred Bonjour - 0 - LAUNCH Project Manager and Lead Tester for OSCAR - Open Source CPAP Analysis Reporter 
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#12
RE: Apneas or Cheyne-Stokes Respirations?
Okay, I've omitted Flow Limit because the mode that I'm using doesn't detect flow limitations (the chart is empty) and Pressure (because I'm on a fixed pressure).  I also omitted snore because it didn't show anything.

I have FOT off (it wakes me up) and so the events are all yellow (indicating that the device cannot tell if they are obstructive or central).

The chart reveals that I woke up between 4:30 to 5:00 a.m. and did not get back to sleep for 20-30 minutes.  That's typical.  Sometimes, I don't get back to sleep at all. There are two other instances where I woke up and turned the machine off, went to the bathroom (probably unnecessarily, but it's what I do), and then went back to sleep (at 6:30 a.m. ish and 7:30 a.m. ish), which is also typical.

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#13
RE: Apneas or Cheyne-Stokes Respirations?
Knowledge of all events as to if they are central or obstructive is important for determining therapy since with tour machines the treatments are basically the opposite of each other.
Lower your pressure to the minimum you can stand assuming that the vast majority of the events are central.
Fred Bonjour - 0 - LAUNCH Project Manager and Lead Tester for OSCAR - Open Source CPAP Analysis Reporter 
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INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.
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#14
RE: Apneas or Cheyne-Stokes Respirations?
Unfortunately, the FOT pulses used by ResMed disturb my sleep.  When FOTs are on, the number of apneas that I experience drop dramatically (<3), but I feel terrible the next morning.  This is a case where measuring something affects the thing that's being measured.

I know that F&P have a new model that detects central/obstructive apneas passively, by analyzing the breathing waveforms.  I hope that ResMed chooses to go in that direction in future models.  Given the massive database that ResMed is compiling using the cellular modems in our devices, I would think that ResMed would be able to come up with a reliable algorithm for doing so.

In the meantime, I think that you're advice is good.  I'll see what happens with the lower pressures.  

Thank you very much for taking a look and offering your advice.  Let me know if you think of anything else.  Smile
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#15
RE: Apneas or Cheyne-Stokes Respirations?
Other than manually evaluating the entire night to classify, which is what they do at sleep labs, I don't know.
Fred Bonjour - 0 - LAUNCH Project Manager and Lead Tester for OSCAR - Open Source CPAP Analysis Reporter 
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INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.
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#16
RE: Apneas or Cheyne-Stokes Respirations?
(04-04-2019, 09:44 PM)bonjour Wrote: Other than manually evaluating the entire night to classify, which is what they do at sleep labs, I don't know.

Well, virtually all of my apneas look just like the waveform that I started this thread with, and so if you're right about them being central, then we've already done the work of classifying the rest.  Smile
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#17
RE: Apneas or Cheyne-Stokes Respirations?
If your events show the wave form you showed at the start that I described as periodic breathing that is central based. If your ahi does not reduce with a reduction in pressure support then only fix would be an ASV Machine I recommend Resmed but the pressure changes may wake you. If you can get a used machine or a means of trial.


Did you have centrals recorded in your sleep test ? What is your current nightly AHI
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#18
RE: Apneas or Cheyne-Stokes Respirations?
(04-05-2019, 12:57 AM)jaswilliams Wrote: If your events show the wave form you showed at the start that I described as periodic breathing that is central based. If your ahi does not reduce with a reduction in pressure support then only fix would be an ASV Machine I recommend Resmed but the pressure changes may wake you. If you can get a used machine or a means of trial.


Did you have centrals recorded in your sleep test ? What is your current nightly AHI

Hi Jaswilliams,

Thank you very much for taking the time to read through everything.  I do plan to try eliminating the pressure support and lowering the pressure to see what happens.  

I've had two PSGs, but I'm such a terrible sleeper that I got very little actual sleep during either.  The first PSG didn't involve CPAP.  The second titration did, and there were centrals recorded during my second PSG.

I welcome any additional thoughts or comments.  

Is there any definitive guide on how to interpret wave forms to determine whether an apnea is central vs. obstructive?
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#19
RE: Apneas or Cheyne-Stokes Respirations?
Definitive is defined as lack of breathing effort as determined with strain gages on chest and belly and brain wave patterns.
In the SleepyHead guide there are many examples of waveforms.
Look for effort in the pause between breaths and obstructive apneas frequently end with a recovery breath where centrals generally do not. Flow limits w clipped tops are obstructive with smooth waveforms could be Central.
Fred Bonjour - 0 - LAUNCH Project Manager and Lead Tester for OSCAR - Open Source CPAP Analysis Reporter 
OSCAR

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INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.
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#20
RE: Apneas or Cheyne-Stokes Respirations?
Not having a CPAP for your diagnostic study is normal. What was the breakdown of apneas in that study? What was termed Central,mixed,complex,emergent?
Fred Bonjour - 0 - LAUNCH Project Manager and Lead Tester for OSCAR - Open Source CPAP Analysis Reporter 
OSCAR

New to Apnea? Helpful tips to ensure success
Mask Primer
Dealing with a DME
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INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.
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