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robysue Online
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Post: #451
RE: SleepyHead CPAP Reporting Software - JediMark
(11-23-2013 12:10 PM)rgmichel Wrote:  
(11-18-2013 12:07 AM)archangle Wrote:  I've never heard any meaningful definition of the "snore" scale other than "higher is more."
I think whether or not you experience a snore at all or how many times a night is useful. The graphs show you when you snore and how many times. Correlate that with the scale and that might be useful. (emphasis added)
Curiosity: Why do you think the snore graph tells you how many times you snore? Or are you just counting the number of times the snore graph has peaks in it?

Snoring data is not well understood because neither Resmed nor PR has openly published much about what their snoring data means---other than "you're snoring."

The scale in ResScan indicates that on the Resmed S9s, the higher the snore graph is, the louder the machine thinks you are snoring. But there are no "units" on this snore graph, and hence the numerical values in SH really carry no meaning that we users have been able to clearly ascertain---beyond "higher is louder."

The snoring data on PR System One machines is extremely confusing---regardless of whether you look at it in Encore or SleepyHead. When JediMark was writing the SH code that displays the snoring data for PR System One machines, he discovered there were two kinds of snoring data being recorded by a PR System One that is run in Auto mode. He called them VS and VS2 for lack of any better names.

The VS snores are recorded only when the System One is run in Auto mode, and these are the snores that trigger pressure increases. The VS snores have time stamps on them, but otherwise there is no number attached to them in the SH events list in the daily data. On a System One machine, the SH VSI is calculated as:
    SH VSI = (number of VS scored)/(total run time)
If you are using a PR System One in fixed pressure mode, the SH VSI = 0.0 regardless of how much you are snoring because the VS snores are not recorded in fixed pressure mode.

The VS2 snores are recorded regardless of whether the System One is running in fixed pressure mode or Auto mode. There are numbers attached to the VS2 snores, and it is these numbers that SH uses to draw the snore graph for System One machines. Whether those numbers actually mean "louder snoring" or "longer snoring" is not at all clear. The assumption that a lot of people make about the SH snore graph is that the higher the graph, the louder the snoring. That may or may not be correct, and looking at the snoring data for a System One machine in Encore (the official software for the PR machines) does not clarify things very much.

In Encore, the VS2s show up in the event table as VS tick marks, but they do not show up in the Encore wave form data. The VS snores show up as tick marks in the Encore wave form data, but do not seem to show up in the tick marks for the VS line in the event table. The Encore VSI is NOT equal to the number of VS2 snores divided by the run time; typically it is much larger than the number of VS2 snores divided by the run time. Reviewing my own data it becomes clear that the Encore VSI is also NOT equal to the total number of VS and VS2 snores divided by the run time. What I've found out in staring at my snore data for a very long time is this data based conjecture:
    Encore VSI = (Sum of the VS2 snore numbers)/(total run time)
where the "snore numbers" are those numbers that show up for each VS2 in parenthesis following the time stamp in the SleepyHead list of events in the Daily Data.

Why the Encore VSI is defined this way remains a mystery to me. It is possible, however, that those parenthetical numbers just might be counting the time the snoring continued measured in (seconds? or breaths?). In which case the VSI would equal an "average amount of time per hour spent snoring" where the "time spent snoring" is measured in whatever the units for the VS2's actually are. But calling this number an "index" seems misleading in that case since all the other indices in the Encore reports are clearly defined as
    Event Index = (number of events of given type)/(total run time)

Moreover the Periodic Breathing data (PB) is reported as a percentage (%) of the night in Encore, which clearly indicates that it is the length (in seconds) of the PB that is being recorded by the machine. And that length in seconds value is the parenthetical number that shows up in SH by each PB event.

Hence: It's a real mystery on how the PR System One machines score a snore, how they tell whether it is a VS or a VS2, and what the numerical meanings are for the individual VS2 numbers; the SH VSI; and the Encore VSI.
12-16-2013 05:30 PM
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zonk Offline

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Machine: A10 AutoSet
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Post: #452
RE: SleepyHead CPAP Reporting Software - JediMark
From encore basic glossary
Snore: A loud upper airway breathing sound during sleep, without episodes of apnea.
Vibratory Snore (VS) Index
The Vibratory Snore Index is the total number of vibratory snoring events per night divided by the hours of use
12-16-2013 05:40 PM
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MrSafety Offline

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Location: S.F. Bay Area... Novato, CA

Post: #453
... Date & Time... can these be changed ?
I have been unable to find how to reset either Date or Time for my PRS1!
The reason I was looking for this is that I would like to adjust the time when we go through a change in DayLight Savings time!
Q - Does SleepyHead take whatever time my Operating System has?

Also from time to time, my SleepyHead appears to NOT be able to show data for the previous night when "Import" the new data from my SD chip!
Some times it does and some times it doesn't... even though I wait until Noon-time which is where I have "PREFERENCES/Import/Day Split Time" set for "12:00 PM" (Noon) inside SleepyHead.
For instance, right now I'l have to wait until tomorrow a.m. to see yesterday's data even though I have already downloaded and made it available to SleepyHead !
Am I making any sense??
Regards,
Sam Ross
(This post was last modified: 12-16-2013 07:55 PM by MrSafety.)
12-16-2013 07:54 PM
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robysue Online
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Machine: PR Dreamstation BiPAP Auto
Mask Type: Nasal pillows
Mask Make & Model: Swift FX
Humidifier: PR Dreamstation humidfier
CPAP Pressure: min EPAP = 4; max IPAP = 9;
CPAP Software: SleepyHead EncoreBasic EncorePro

Other Comments: Papping since September 2010

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Location: Buffalo, NY

Post: #454
RE: SleepyHead CPAP Reporting Software - JediMark
(12-16-2013 05:40 PM)zonk Wrote:  From encore basic glossary
Snore: A loud upper airway breathing sound during sleep, without episodes of apnea.
Vibratory Snore (VS) Index
The Vibratory Snore Index is the total number of vibratory snoring events per night divided by the hours of use
Yes, the Encore basic glossary says that. But---if you look at the snoring data in Encore and you look at the same snoring data in SH you can get very different impressions. And if SH is counting the number of VS and VS2's correctly, then the Encore VSI is just plain NOT equal to the number of vibratory snore events divided by the hours of use.

As an example: Here are screen shots of the same night's data from way back when (Feb. 16, 2011), when I was still using my BiPAP in fixed pressure mode at 7/4 and had a particularly bad night for snoring:

First Encore's view of the night:
[Image: Encore_data_2-16-2011_zps7d258d32.jpg]
The Encore VSI = 118.3, which is one of my highest Encore VSI numbers in three years of data. Although what this means is not clear. The usage for this night was a bit over 5.5 hours. If we use the standard idea that Event Index = (number of events)/(run time) to try to compute the number of "Encore VS" snores for the night, we wind up with an astonishing 650 "Encore VS" snores, which seems somewhat unlikely given the fact that the snore ticks are not so densely packed as to become solid red rectangles and there's a huge part of the night with no snoring recorded.

When we look at the same data in SH, we pick up different things based on whether we have the Details or the Events tab selected in the left side bar. When Details is selected, we see this information:
[Image: SH-2-16-2011_zps29375808.jpg]
Several things stand out in this picture of the data. First and foremost, all of the indices except the VSI equal the corresponding Encore index once you round the SH indices to one decimal place. Next: the SH VSI = 0.0 even though some serious snoring is obviously going on. (Remember, the Encore VSI = 118.3 and there are a lot of tick marks on that VS2 line in the event table.) The Snoring statistics show nonzero numbers for the 90% and Maximum values, although the Max Snore = 25, which is still way, way smaller than the Encore VSI = 118.3. And the Snore graph clearly has some (serious) bumps in it.

Part of trying to reconcile the SH version of the data with the Encore version involves understanding that when JediMark stared working with the System One data, he discovered that it records two kinds of snoring data, which he called VS and VS2 snores.

But ....
What the heck distinguishes a VS snore from a VS2 snore? No one knows except the engineers at PR and they're not telling us.

And VS snores are recorded by System One machines ONLY when they are run in Auto mode. So if you are using a PR System One in fixed pressure mode, your SH VSI = 0.0 night after night after night, no matter how badly you are snoring. Your Encore VSI, on the other hand will NOT be 0.0 when you are using fixed pressure mode. And that's worth knowing if you are a PR System One user trying to make sense of the snoring data presented in SH.

Also note that in this night's data, the VS2 tick marks are not so densely packed in the SH event table simply because the table itself is larger. It's actually possible to try to count them. If you do, you should get around 60 of them. That's less than 1/10 of the expected number of "Encore Snores" if we assume that the Encore VSI is computed in the same way the Encore OAI, HI, CAI, RERA I, and FLI are computed. (Although the FLI = 0.0 is also misleading because a System One records FL data only when running in Auto mode.)

When we select the Events tab in SH, we get this picture:
[Image: SH-2-16-2011-snores_zpsd9dc8860.jpg]
SleepyHead finds a record of 59 VS2s recorded in the data. (The list is too long to show them all.) Note that we can't simply divide 59 by the run time of 5.5 and get the Encore VSI that way: 59/5.5 = 10.72. If Encore were computing the VSI in the same way it computes the other indices (the OAI, CAI, HI, RE I, and FLI), then the Encore VSI = 10.7.

In all the data that I've carefully looked at (including this night), I've found the same calculation works for computing the Encore VSI. If you add up all those numbers in parenthesis by the individual VS2's in the SH version of the data and divide that sum by the run time, low and behold, you get the correct Encore VSI. In other words, it seems that
    Encore VSI = (Sum of the VS2 snore numbers in SH)/(total run time)

Why Encore computes the official Encore VSI in this fashion is a mystery to me. I've found nothing in the Encore documentation that even hints at the fact that this is how the Encore VSI is computed or why it's computed in the way it is. What is clear is that once a set of persistent snoring starts in my data, there's a VS2 snore flag detected by Encore every two minutes with a number associated with that two minute interval.

Perhaps each SH VS2 is actually some kind of a conglomerate of multiple "snoring" events. But then the question goes back to "What is a snoring event?" Is a "snoring event" a fixed amount of time (or a fixed number of breaths) in which snoring was detected where the number following a VS2 indicate how long the snoring lasted, and hence counts the number of "snoring events" recorded (at or near) that time stamp? Or does a single breath with a snore count as a "snoring event"?

Clearly SH does not represent the snoring data coming from a PR System One machine in the same way that Encore does. That's not a criticism of SH or JediMark, by the way. JediMark has made some reasonable attempts at presenting the confusing snoring data in a way that makes some innate mathematical sense, whence comes his decision to make SH VSI = (number of VS snores)/(total run time) and to present the VS2 data graphically while not trying to compute a SH VS2 Index.
12-16-2013 08:35 PM
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robysue Online
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Machine: PR Dreamstation BiPAP Auto
Mask Type: Nasal pillows
Mask Make & Model: Swift FX
Humidifier: PR Dreamstation humidfier
CPAP Pressure: min EPAP = 4; max IPAP = 9;
CPAP Software: SleepyHead EncoreBasic EncorePro

Other Comments: Papping since September 2010

Sex: Female
Location: Buffalo, NY

Post: #455
RE: ... Date & Time... can these be changed ?
(12-16-2013 07:54 PM)MrSafety Wrote:  I have been unable to find how to reset either Date or Time for my PRS1!
The reason I was looking for this is that I would like to adjust the time when we go through a change in DayLight Savings time!
Q - Does SleepyHead take whatever time my Operating System has?
There is no way to reset the clock on a PRS1. The clock is set to GMT at the factory. Sleepy Head uses your computer's time zone setting to adjust the GMT timestamps to the local time. Encore uses the "Company Time Zone" setting to adjust the GMT timestamps in the data to local time. Both pieces of software should handle the change to/from daylight savings time without too much trouble. (SH will have a discrepancy between the timestamps shown in the "Details" side bar as compared to the times shown on the graphs themselves on the days where daylight savings time is in effect---or at least that's true on my Mac.

Also it's worth noting that PR S1 clocks are known to have some drift in them over time and some may simply come from the factory with an incorrect time. I've been using my PR S1 BiPAP since April 2011 and its clock is currently 21 minutes too fast. (i.e. If I got to bed at 1:00AM, the data says I went to bed at 1:21 AM). Under the preferences table you can set a clock offset which will make the times show up correctly in SH. But the incorrect times will still show up in Encore.

Quote:Also from time to time, my SleepyHead appears to NOT be able to show data for the previous night when "Import" the new data from my SD chip!
Some times it does and some times it doesn't... even though I wait until Noon-time which is where I have "PREFERENCES/Import/Day Split Time" set for "12:00 PM" (Noon) inside SleepyHead.
For instance, right now I'l have to wait until tomorrow a.m. to see yesterday's data even though I have already downloaded and made it available to SleepyHead !
I have not run into this problem. What version are you using? And are you using a Series 60 System One or the older Series 50 System One?

One thought though: Date changes happen in the middle of the night for most folks. And the data for the night that STARTS on Dec 16, 2013 and ENDS on Dec. 17, 2013 is located on Dec. 16---regardless of when you actually go to bed. And sometimes folks click on today's date when they want last night's data. You need to click on yesterday's date to see the data recorded last night---regardless of when bedtime was.

So for example: When I go to bed tonight (Dec. 16) at 1:30AM Dec. 17 and wake up tomorrow morning (Dec. 17) at 8:00AM, the data for the night will be under Dec 16 even though all of it was recorded on after midnight in the wee hours of Dec. 17. Does that make any sense?
12-16-2013 08:51 PM
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RSO Offline

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Post: #456
RE: SleepyHead CPAP Reporting Software - JediMark
Hi,

I've been using Sleepyhead for about a year now. Most recenty, as using 0.9.2 on Mac (OSX 10.6.8, Snow Leopard) with Respironics 950P ASV Bi-Flex CPAP. Love the program. Then card reader died and under warranty the unit was replaced with a Respironics 960P with integrated heated hose. Now SH reads hours of use and some other data correctly, but the new AHI, Tidal volumes for the 960P are nonsense, reading ten thousand or more (old machine data still OK). I managed to find SH 0.9-3 but it didn't run on SL. So I upgraded a separate drive to Lion (10.7.5) and SH 0.9-3 now runs, but the problem is still the same as 0.9.2 with incorrect AHI, etc.

Any solutions?
12-23-2013 07:24 PM
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DOOM_NX Offline

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Machine: ResMed S9 AutoSet
Mask Type: Nasal mask
Mask Make & Model: Weinmann JOYCE SilkGel
Humidifier: ResMed H5i + ClimateLine (not using year-round)
CPAP Pressure: 5–16 cmH2O
CPAP Software: ResScan SleepyHead

Other Comments: 12/2011: Mild SAS (AHI 14.5) - 10/2013: Severe SAS (AHI 78.7) - Using AutoCPAP: AHI 1.4

Sex: Male
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Post: #457
RE: SleepyHead CPAP Reporting Software - JediMark
Hi.

SleepyHead has a serious flaw that interferes with correct data logging.

1. You forget to put the SD card in the ResMed S9
2. You insert it when you wake up, so that at least it gets the basic data.
3. ResScan logs everything but the detailed data.
4. SleepyHead shows that you skipped therapy that night.

Can it be fixed?
12-23-2013 07:33 PM
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me50 Offline

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Post: #458
RE: SleepyHead CPAP Reporting Software - JediMark
If you left the SD card out of your machine, the data will not be put on the card after you put it back in the machine. You can see limited data on the machine from your LCD and that would be all for the night the card wasn't in the machine.
12-23-2013 07:39 PM
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Sleepster Offline
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Post: #459
RE: SleepyHead CPAP Reporting Software - JediMark
(12-23-2013 07:24 PM)RSO Wrote:  Then card reader died and under warranty the unit was replaced with a Respironics 960P with integrated heated hose.

SH had to be patched up when the newer 60 Series machines came out. If you have a version of SH that works with the 60 Series machines, it may be that it just doesn't work with your 960 machine. The higher end BiPAP's don't play well with SH.

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12-23-2013 09:58 PM
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DOOM_NX Offline

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Posts: 155
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Machine: ResMed S9 AutoSet
Mask Type: Nasal mask
Mask Make & Model: Weinmann JOYCE SilkGel
Humidifier: ResMed H5i + ClimateLine (not using year-round)
CPAP Pressure: 5–16 cmH2O
CPAP Software: ResScan SleepyHead

Other Comments: 12/2011: Mild SAS (AHI 14.5) - 10/2013: Severe SAS (AHI 78.7) - Using AutoCPAP: AHI 1.4

Sex: Male
Location: Greece

Post: #460
RE: SleepyHead CPAP Reporting Software - JediMark
(12-23-2013 07:39 PM)me50 Wrote:  If you left the SD card out of your machine, the data will not be put on the card after you put it back in the machine.

Yes, it will. ResScan is able to read the data minus the detailed graphs. SleepyHead can't read anything, not even usage data.
12-23-2013 10:09 PM
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