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Backup Systems both home and portable
#1
Backup Systems both home and portable
I am interested in learning all I can about how to set up two different battery back up systems, one home based, with at least two recharging options (i.e. solar and gen set), as well as portable backup systems (I just purchased a suaoki 400 watt/hour lithium ion battery pack, but still need to buy a portable solar panel for it).  I am also interested if anyone knows of any governmental or private programs that reduce my net cost of buying/building emergency back up systems for my CPAP so as to be prepared for prolonged power outages such as might occur during natural disasters (I live in SF/CA - earthquake country).

Thanks!

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#2
RE: Backup Systems both home and portable
Welcome
Here is a guide published by Resmed for their devices. I hope it will help.
https://www.resmed.com/us/dam/documents/...lo_eng.pdf

I see that you have duplicated this post. I'm gong to ask that it be deleted to maintain continuity.
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#3
RE: Backup Systems both home and portable
Thanks for the info, and thanks for deleting the duplicate posting!  I'm afraid while making so many inquiries, I didn't realize my mistake.  As to the info, I have reviewed it, but it doesn't cover lithium ion options, nor does it address things from an average system perspective.  I am due to qualify to replace my current CPAP next month, and as of yet don't know what brand or model I'll be approved for.  Thus the need for more general info.  Furthermore, I'm still looking for info regarding any program that would reduce my cost of such back up systems.  Finally, what battery systems that were discussed were all for short term usage, not the long term usage that would be necessitated by a natural disaster of any significance.  In any case, thank you for such a rapid response, and for your well intentioned info referral.

Appreciatively,

Bob D.
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#4
RE: Backup Systems both home and portable
Battery chemistry shouldn't make any difference WRT applicability of the Resmed Battery guide. To determine size of the Wh battery in Ah terms, divide by the battery's voltage (400 Wh/12 = 33.33 Ah). Unless I really NEEDED portability, I wouldn't worry about Li-ion batteries. Around the house, SLA/AGM (sealed lead acid/absorbed Glass Mat) are lots easier to maintain and usually MUCH cheaper...

I keep a few 35/39 Ah SLAs around the house. Each will run my APAP for better than a week (without heated humogrification). I have a 140W solar panel for charging if we are out of power for more than a month. :-)

OMMOHY
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#5
RE: Backup Systems both home and portable
(09-25-2017, 09:35 PM)bobd94109 Wrote: Thanks for the info, and thanks for deleting the duplicate posting!  I'm afraid while making so many inquiries, I didn't realize my mistake.  As to the info, I have reviewed it, but it doesn't cover lithium ion options, nor does it address things from an average system perspective.  I am due to qualify to replace my current CPAP next month, and as of yet don't know what brand or model I'll be approved for.  Thus the need for more general info.  Furthermore, I'm still looking for info regarding any program that would reduce my cost of such back up systems.  Finally, what battery systems that were discussed were all for short term usage, not the long term usage that would be necessitated by a natural disaster of any significance.  In any case, thank you for such a rapid response, and for your well intentioned info referral.

Appreciatively,

Bob D.

I'm a plug-and-play kind of person and have been researching Yeti's. They are on sale right now, so maybe models are being upgraded. From what I've seen, there are reviews by CPAPpers on YouTube.

I want to be able to just plug equipment into a box and have it work. I want it for camping. I want to be able to re-charge it from the wall as well as while driving. It has to be chain-able in case I want to link it another system. And I have to be able to carry it with a reasonable effort: I'm not into disabling myself unnecessarily.

It also has to be chargeable by solar panel in case I want to camp for months at a time. Some Yeti's are sold in packages with solar panels, but I think this aspect wouldn't be that difficult to set up. People put solar panels on the roofs of their vans.

Although I'm experienced with technology, I'm baffled by batteries, and have zero fix-it talent. The prospect of a jury-rigged system being unfathomable in an emergency has no appeal to me. In the heat of the moment, I could very easily forget the battery plan.

I researched this long before the hurricane season—not to mention nuclear threat—but now I'm really motivated. I'd want to manage a Puerto Rico kind of disaster for myself and have at least a little to share.

You can use a SteriPen if you need clean water for CPAP maintenance if the water source in your locale is out of commission. This part's easy to make happen, but you need the gizmo. It, too, can be solar-charged, but a few extra batteries will probably take care of most situations.
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#6
RE: Backup Systems both home and portable
Wow!  Thanks for the extra info.  Made things much more clear.  Will research further, but that looks like just the start I needed!  Thanks!
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#7
RE: Backup Systems both home and portable
Can you recommend a particular brand/model of Lead Acid Glass Mat Battery?  If each one sized as you described will drive a CPAP for a week, it seems to me that all I'll need is a couple, and a means of recharging, i.e. solar panel and/or a portable inverter/gen set.  At this point I'm leaning towards a dual fuel unit, as I'm under the impression propane stores for much longer periods without degradation than gasoline will.
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#8
RE: Backup Systems both home and portable
Not to be facetious, but a nuclear EMP would fry all of your electronics. If not an EMP, then I would be more worried about a supply of Potassium Iodide tablets and a way to avoid the fallout and decontaminate myself and my supplies. A Geiger counter would be nice. As for a Puerto Rico kind of regional disaster -- there is no such thing as sharing as your capabilities would be exhausted in a matter of hours. The preparation for that type of disaster should be to be mobile enough to move out of the affected area and into an area where you can reestablish an income flow and be able to live without emergency restrictions.

As for the battery set-up, nothing is quite plug-and-play simple as portrayed in the ads as there are a number of component parts required. I suggest you color code all of the cables and outlets to allow you to make the proper connections without instructions.

For my machine, I use a ResMed-branded DC-DC converter (You could use an inverter, but that wastes power capacity) which is a must. The DC-DC converter gives you plug-in capabilities for use with your car. (There are conditions regarding using your car to directly power the machine -- especially if the machine is hooked up when you start the vehicle.) Then there is the battery, the charger, the solar panel, cabling, fuses, and transport considerations.
I am currently using a 12v 55 aH deep cycle AGM battery (40 pounds) on a luggage carrier with a smart charger, and cigarette-type connections. I have tried a couple of solar panels, but they take 5-6 hours of bright sun to do the job right.

I have a ResMed AutoSet at a pressure setting of 12-16 and do not use the ClimateLine or the Humidifier. I can get at least 3-days before reaching the point where I am uncomfortable about continuing use without a charge.

Best of luck with your research. Keep us posted.  I am going to try one of the newer 40 aH LiFePO4 batteries and will try to write a review of the entire system.
"The object in life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane." -- Marcus Aurelius
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#9
RE: Backup Systems both home and portable
Thanks again for all the great info.  Lot's of leads to chase down!
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#10
RE: Backup Systems both home and portable
(09-26-2017, 12:33 AM)bobd94109 Wrote: Can you recommend a particular brand/model of Lead Acid Glass Mat Battery?  If each one sized as you described will drive a CPAP for a week, it seems to me that all I'll need is a couple, and a means of recharging, i.e. solar panel and/or a portable inverter/gen set.  At this point I'm leaning towards a dual fuel unit, as I'm under the impression propane stores for much longer periods without degradation than gasoline will.

As to brands, I stay pretty close to bigger named brands.  I currently have CSB (by HItachi) and Powersonic, but going forward will probably standardize on CSB as they offer a 39 Ah in the same form factor as most 33-35 AH batteries (CSB EVH 12390 - 12 V 39 Ah for the model number derivation).  Reason I try to stay with brand names is that they have some skin in the game to protect their trademark.  IMHO less likely  to put junk on the street.   Lots of batteries get made in third world locations and they get whatever sticker gets slapped on them and that company which may or may not be here in a year.  The battery may be good or it may not, but if nobody is betting an established company on it, I have doubts regarding the quality invested in manufacture.

Good maintenance is important.  Batteries are not get-it-and-forget-it Ronco appliances.  You will need a good four stage smart charger (including "float" not "Trickle").  Deltran Battery Tenders have given me good results; lately I've been giving NOCO Genius chargers a look.  When the Discover Card 5% Bonus cash back changes to Amazon next week, I think I will pick up one of the 4 station, 1.1Amp/station (4.4 amp total) chargers - it is slow charging at 1.1A per station, but for keeping batteries topped off all the time, it will take me out of the game of rotating chargers to different batteries every month.  That will be a true "Set-It-And-Forget-It" maintenace solution for me.  They do have different models that will do different things (number of batteries, amperage (higher amps generally means faster charges). I will still have my 6 amp Deltran Battery Tender for when I use a battery and wish to charge it more quickly.

Now, as to me being able to run a CPAP for over a week, understand that each machine and user combo will require different current draws and that how they are run impacts their battery life before requiring recharge.  My measurements were at low moderate pressures that I documented with Sleepyhead (average 9-10 cm H2O - if I were running CPAP the pressures would be higher as we would be running at my 90% pressure of around 11.5 cm H2O).  They were also done with NO heated humidificaiton (heated humidifiers are power gluttons and often use way more power than the CPAP/APAP itself so battery life using them is often greatly shortened.)  If on batteries, ditch heated humidificaiton - with low moderate heated humidifcation, my battery capacity drops from over 9 nights down to 4 nights on lmy primary Respironics 560 Auto.  You can still have water in the machine, but don't turn on the heat.  That way you get some humidification if you need it, bet don't eat battery.  For the most part, me, I don't need humidification.

Each brand and model of machine also may have differing current requirements.  It would be helpful to know what machine you have.  I recently tested four different brands/models and was surprised at how similar the current draw result were for each machine, averaging the average nightly current draw.  Having said all that, yes, my batteries will run my machine a full week of 7 hour nights.  Get the resmed battery guide for good background information.  If you have a ResMed, it will tell you how much capacity in Amp Hours (Ah)  you would need (thier numbers, in my testing are conservative, but that's understandable - plus my testing involved tow of their machines, not a big, statistically significant number of test units)

If you have an interest, I can go into more detail as to calculating current draw or even measuring current.  You may search some of my other posts because I've already done several.

NOTE:  You mentioned an inverter.  You DO NOT EVER want to run your battery source through an inverter.  They rob a huge percentage of your stored energy by taking 12 V DC, Turning it into 120 V DC, and then you run that through your unit's power supply turning the electricity back into 12V DC (or 24 if ResMed) power that the machine runs off of.  Some folks have read a couple of terms and pretend to know what's really going on and like to make a big fluster about "pure sine" or "modified sine (stepped wave)" inverter output.  It is all a bunch of baloney.  As all of the 120 v AC gets turned back into DC before getting to anything inside your CPAP, it doesn't matter.  (Yeah, that's right.  Your machine never sees the AC wave form power.  The converter fixes any problem before it gets to the machine.  It's what it does.  And the power supplies don't give a crumb what you plug them into so long as it is within the voltage specs.)

OMMOHY
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