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Be Careful What Filters You Use!
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archangle Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Be Careful What Filters You Use!
(12-17-2012 08:50 PM)2Tim215 Wrote:  [b]But the machine is multiplying the amount of airborne items which when passed through a poor filter must land at the obstruction area. I realize this is where the airway is opened so we can breath normally, but where do these airborne items end up? Where else could they go? Now consider my situation. I used the grey coarse filter for several months, the combined accumulation of what passed through is concerning to me as a possible contributor to my current situation.

Let me address this separately. Some of the dust in the filter would have ended up in your lungs. Most of it would have gone out the exhale vent without ever touching your lungs.

Without CPAP or apnea, you would have inhaled at least the same amount of dust as you did with CPAP without filters.

However much dust you're breathing through CPAP while asleep, you're breathing more dust while awake than while asleep, because you're awake for more of the day, breathing deeper, and probably doing more things to stir up dust.

Get the free SleepyHead software here.
Useful links.
Click here for information on the main alternative to CPAP.
If it's midnight and a DME tells you it's dark outside, go and check it yourself.
12-18-2012 10:41 AM
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Shastzi Offline

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Post: #22
RE: Be Careful What Filters You Use!
Correct Archangle. Smile
The amount of pressure forced into the lungs at 5cm-20cm of pressure is negligable.
Short thought experiment:
The only way I can force more air in my lungs, since they can only hold 6 liters (average) is by going scuba diving.
If I dive down to 33ft depth the air is then at 2 atmospheres. Although the physical capacity has not changed there is about twice as much air packed in at that pressure. (12L)
Go deeper to 66ft we are at 3 atmospheres now (210cm of water!). (18L)
Why dont I explode? Because the water around me is also trying to squash me by the same amount. Everything stays equal.
***
If I salted the air with the same amount of dust as in the room THEN that would be a significant load of dirt.
*KOFF-KOFF* BLEAH!!
***
So, I don't dare hold my breath and make an ascent. Then bad things happen when the air in my lungs begins to expand to full size. See Gas embolism in diving.
Not a nice way to go either.
So we breathe normally and let the pressures stay in balance at all times.
***
That was just a little thought experiment, since I am not going scuba diving or try to squeeze as much dust in my lungs as I can.

Smile

"With ordinary talent and extraordinary perseverance, all things are attainable." - Thomas Foxwell Buxton

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03-27-2013 10:19 PM
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Shastzi Offline

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Post: #23
RE: Be Careful What Filters You Use!
Last post was late at night. Did I think all that out loud? Big Grin

Summary: If you want to reduce the dust you breathe, get a REAL HEPA air cleaner (dont scrimp. $150-$200) for your bedroom and keep the place vaccumed with a HEPA vaccuum cleaner!

And keep the humidity BELOW 50% at all costs. (Mold loves to grow at 50% RH and higher)
Get a good dehumidifier. (also not cheap. )
I know, since I live in the swamps.
If you are mold/pollen allergic, etc. you may already be doing these things and have made the investment in equipment.

The filter for your CPAP is just to keep really large stuff out of the machine's innards. You dont want vermin living in there and messing up all those expensive sensors, right?

Peace, Love and Carrots!

=^.^=

"With ordinary talent and extraordinary perseverance, all things are attainable." - Thomas Foxwell Buxton

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03-28-2013 06:10 AM
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ruscottm Offline

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Post: #24
RE: Be Careful What Filters You Use!
I have blue cross and blue shield of NJ and you can only get new filters every 3 months
03-28-2013 07:48 AM
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Shastzi Offline

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Machine: ResMed S9 Autoset
Mask Type: Full face mask
Mask Make & Model: FitLife Total face mask
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CPAP Pressure: 15cm-20cm H2O (auto)
CPAP Software: SleepyHead Other Software

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Post: #25
RE: Be Careful What Filters You Use!
That is BS, rus. You can get new filters for that machine for a few $$ anytime you want from one of the suppliers listed at this forum site.

"With ordinary talent and extraordinary perseverance, all things are attainable." - Thomas Foxwell Buxton

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03-28-2013 09:51 AM
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ICURn Offline

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Machine: Respironics System 1 BiPap
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Post: #26
RE: Be Careful What Filters You Use!
Wow, what a frustration to go through with the filters and O2 issues! Here are a couple of points that might shed some light on some things though:

First, the clear X-rays you had in 2010 would NOT rule out COPD. X-rays are good for some things but can only see really really severe COPD. They are never used as the diagostic tool. Your lungs may have had pretty significant damage and the X-ray would have been fairly normal. A CT scan might have seen more. A pulmonary function test would have been necessary to really rule it out then. If your curious, look to see some of your older bloodwork. If your hemoglobin and/or hematocrit (labelled Hgb/Hct) is high on your complete blood count (CBC) then you probably had some COPD that your body was compensating for. The body makes your blood "thicker" with red blood cells when your O2 levels are constantly low (like mountain climbers). I only bring this up as you almost certainly would have progressed the same way with perfect filtration on your CPAP.

As others have mentioned its hard for CPAP to push anything down into your lungs. Yes, you should have a filter to prevent the big stuff. Your minute volumes (outside of the swings) were pretty normal on one of your posts. When the minute volume swings way up it's because you were breathing fast for a minute or so then slowed down, not because your lungs expanded greatly.

I wish you luck and suggest you talk with your apnea doc about a retitration for your OSA. Having COPD means your therapy needs have changed. You might benefit from moving to BiPap...
(This post was last modified: 07-01-2013 12:26 AM by ICURn.)
07-01-2013 12:25 AM
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ICURn Offline

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Post: #27
RE: Be Careful What Filters You Use!
Actually the -pressure- of 5-20cm of CPAP is NOT negligible. Patients on ventilators usually don't receive more than 15-20cm of inspiratory pressure and 5-10 of exhalatory pressure. Using BiPap for sick patients is usually in the 20 over 10 range (with oxygen of course). It's the extra -volume- that doesn't change all that much (outside of say pneumonia or congestive heart failure where the pressure gets you back to normal lung volumes).

Until you drag your CPAP down while you are scuba diving, then all bets are off. :-)

(03-27-2013 10:19 PM)Shastzi Wrote:  Correct Archangle. Smile
The amount of pressure forced into the lungs at 5cm-20cm of pressure is negligable.
Short thought experiment:
The only way I can force more air in my lungs, since they can only hold 6 liters (average) is by going scuba diving.
If I dive down to 33ft depth the air is then at 2 atmospheres. Although the physical capacity has not changed there is about twice as much air packed in at that pressure. (12L)
Go deeper to 66ft we are at 3 atmospheres now (210cm of water!). (18L)
Why dont I explode? Because the water around me is also trying to squash me by the same amount. Everything stays equal.
***
If I salted the air with the same amount of dust as in the room THEN that would be a significant load of dirt.
*KOFF-KOFF* BLEAH!!
***
So, I don't dare hold my breath and make an ascent. Then bad things happen when the air in my lungs begins to expand to full size. See Gas embolism in diving.
Not a nice way to go either.
So we breathe normally and let the pressures stay in balance at all times.
***
That was just a little thought experiment, since I am not going scuba diving or try to squeeze as much dust in my lungs as I can.

Smile
07-01-2013 12:35 AM
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Shastzi Offline

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Posts: 1,174
Joined: Dec 2012

Machine: ResMed S9 Autoset
Mask Type: Full face mask
Mask Make & Model: FitLife Total face mask
Humidifier: F&P HC150 with Hybernite heated hose.
CPAP Pressure: 15cm-20cm H2O (auto)
CPAP Software: SleepyHead Other Software

Other Comments: CMS50-F wearable Oximeter; Software: SPO2 Assistant

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Location: Florida, USA.

Post: #28
RE: Be Careful What Filters You Use!
Yah, ICU. Not going CPAP Diving anytime soon.

Smile

"With ordinary talent and extraordinary perseverance, all things are attainable." - Thomas Foxwell Buxton

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07-01-2013 05:39 AM
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spdklls99 Offline

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Post: #29
RE: Be Careful What Filters You Use!
(12-17-2012 04:13 PM)zonk Wrote:  
(12-17-2012 03:40 PM)archangle Wrote:  The filters are there mostly to protect the machine from dust, not to protect you from dust.
in this case antibacterial filters protect you from dust if not using heated hoses

your not supposed to use an antibacterial filter in conjunction with a humidifier at all!

I don't believe anything I hear and only half of what I see
07-01-2013 12:32 PM
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zonk Offline

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Post: #30
RE: Be Careful What Filters You Use!
From S9 manual - Antibacterial filters are not compatible with the ClimateLine, ClimateLineMAX or SlimLine tubing but can be used with the Standard air tubing.
Antibacterial filters increase resistance in the air circuit and may affect accuracy of displayed and delivered pressure, particularly at high flows. ResMed recommends using a filter with a low impedance (eg, less than 2 cm H2O at 60 L/min).

From Supplier #1 - Product Features
The In-line Bacteria Filter is a must-have among CPAP supplies for any customer suffering from allergies. This filter cleans the air as it leaves a CPAP or Bilevel machine. It is used in conjunction with the machine's built-in inlet filters to provide very clean air.

Important Tips
Heated Hose/Tubing Compatibility
CPAP/BiPAP machines that are using a heated hose/tubing which is specific to that machine and require a specialized connection are not compatible with the In-line Bacteria filter. The In-line Bacteria Filter cannot be placed between the machine and the hose/tubing connection. In this case, the In-line Bacteria filter could be used between the Hose/Tubing and the mask if desired and will add bulk at that connection.
Examples of machine specific heated hose/tubing are:

Customer review: When attached between the hose and the humidifier, it is very loud. Plus there is a small whine that changes pitch dependent of air pressure and speed (inhale/exhale) Instead i attached it between the hose and my mask (Quattro FX). WHile this makes the mask a little more clunky the noise is reduced, and the whine is gone
07-01-2013 04:20 PM
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