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"Blown Up"
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Sleepster Offline
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Post: #11
RE: "Blown Up"
If you have OSA, there's no doubt that significant leaks increase your chances for an obstructive apnea. But the machine won't detect it.

Sleepster
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INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.
03-20-2012 08:05 PM
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Jenny Offline

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Post: #12
RE: "Blown Up"
(03-19-2012 07:22 PM)Gazby Wrote:  I have been told that I was moving around alot last night yet I hardly had any REM sleep, think I will have to get the brain matter working to sort this one out!

If you don't mind me asking, how do you know how much REM sleep you had? Is this based on the amount of dreaming you know you did? Also, if you know, I think I dreamed a lot during a nap today, which had a nightmarish element to it. Before napping, I put the Auto to CPAP mode with C flex just to see if I slept better than with the Auto Mode (I had to take a nap as I felt very bad in the morning even though the AHI for the night before said 3.6). I had a 2 hour great nap and then I checked the AHI and it was 0. My question is, I'm not clear on this, but I believe apnea is associated with nightmares? I'm sleeping with CPAP mode again tonight, just to see if I indeed feel a lot better tomorrow. (I forgot about the C flex element and what a great difference that makes from the standard "brick" CPAP.) Any comments would be greatly appreciated.
03-21-2012 09:35 PM
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PaulaO2 Offline
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Post: #13
RE: "Blown Up"
No, with apnea it is the opposite. We don't get deep enough for true dream state or aren't there long enough. The REM is rapid eye movement which is what we do when dreaming. The deeper/better the sleep, the more REM you have. (I think, though, that they call it REM even if you are not dreaming, just that you are deep enough to do so.) The more REM sleep you have, the better you are taking advantage of sleep.

Before CPAP use, I could manipulate my dreams. Stop, start, rewind, fast forward, re-write it. Kinda fun, actually. The only time I had nightmares or weird dreams was where I was on pain medication. The first three weeks I had CPAP, I had nightmares like crazy! The sleep doc said it was normal and that some people have difficulties with it. But it settled down and I reckon I dream like normal folks do.
03-21-2012 09:43 PM
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Jenny Offline

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Post: #14
RE: "Blown Up"
(03-21-2012 09:43 PM)PaulaO2 Wrote:  Before CPAP use, I could manipulate my dreams. Stop, start, rewind, fast forward, re-write it. Kinda fun, actually. The only time I had nightmares or weird dreams was where I was on pain medication. The first three weeks I had CPAP, I had nightmares like crazy! The sleep doc said it was normal and that some people have difficulties with it. But it settled down and I reckon I dream like normal folks do.

That is very interesting. I'm not going to worry about still having nightmares then, or at least some part of my dream having a nightmarish element. I'm glad you told me this. Thanks!
03-22-2012 07:47 AM
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Netskier Offline

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Machine: Resmed S9 Autoset, Mirage Quattro Full-Face Mask, Slimline tube.
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CPAP Pressure: 6-13 cm H20; Ramp OFF.
CPAP Software: SleepyHead

Other Comments: Currently studying Reversal of Aging.

Sex: Male
Location: Los Angeles South Bay, about 20 min South of Downtown LA.

Post: #15
RE: "Blown Up"
(03-21-2012 09:35 PM)Jenny Wrote:  
(03-19-2012 07:22 PM)Gazby Wrote:  I have been told that I was moving around alot last night yet I hardly had any REM sleep, think I will have to get the brain matter working to sort this one out!

If you don't mind me asking, how do you know how much REM sleep you had? Is this based on the amount of dreaming you know you did? Also, if you know, I think I dreamed a lot during a nap today, which had a nightmarish element to it. Before napping, I put the Auto to CPAP mode with C flex just to see if I slept better than with the Auto Mode (I had to take a nap as I felt very bad in the morning even though the AHI for the night before said 3.6). I had a 2 hour great nap and then I checked the AHI and it was 0. My question is, I'm not clear on this, but I believe apnea is associated with nightmares? I'm sleeping with CPAP mode again tonight, just to see if I indeed feel a lot better tomorrow. (I forgot about the C flex element and what a great difference that makes from the standard "brick" CPAP.) Any comments would be greatly appreciated.

Obstructive apnea and hypopnea are associated with dreaming. The association is with all dreaming, not just with bad dreams.

I am not aware of Central Apneas being associated with any kind of dreams, either good or bad, and know of no theoretical reason for them to be.

I love my EPR mode in Resmed too, which is similar to your A Flex mode in Respironics APAP. Be sure to compare your sleep in Respironics CPAP mode with C-flex to your sleep in APAP mode with A-flex.

My age is none of my mind's business. --- Netskier
03-25-2012 03:43 AM
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Netskier Offline

Members

Posts: 125
Joined: Mar 2012

Machine: Resmed S9 Autoset, Mirage Quattro Full-Face Mask, Slimline tube.
Mask Type: Full face mask
Mask Make & Model:
Humidifier: H5i, but not being used.
CPAP Pressure: 6-13 cm H20; Ramp OFF.
CPAP Software: SleepyHead

Other Comments: Currently studying Reversal of Aging.

Sex: Male
Location: Los Angeles South Bay, about 20 min South of Downtown LA.

Post: #16
RE: "Blown Up"
(03-21-2012 09:43 PM)PaulaO2 Wrote:  No, with apnea it is the opposite. We don't get deep enough for true dream state or aren't there long enough.


Most dreams occur in shallow sleep, not in deep sleep. REM sleep is shallow sleep.

REM episodes are of short duration after you first fall asleep, and typically lengthen as the sleep duration increases. Thus, you have longer REM periods with more dreams in the latter part of your sleep cycle.

Quote:The REM is rapid eye movement which is what we do when dreaming.


True

Quote:The deeper/better the sleep, the more REM you have.

Not true. What is true is that the longer you sleep, the more REM you have, and the longer the duration of each REM episode.

Quote:(I think, though, that they call it REM even if you are not dreaming, just that you are deep enough to do so.)

REM sleep is defined by the measurement of Rapid Eye Movements. REM occurs during shallow sleepl.

Quote:The more REM sleep you have, the better you are taking advantage of sleep.

True, but this is just part of the story. The complete picture is that you want to maximize both deep (dreamless sleep) and shallow REM sleep.

My age is none of my mind's business. --- Netskier
03-25-2012 04:18 AM
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Jenny Offline

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Post: #17
RE: "Blown Up"
[/quote]

I love my EPR mode in Resmed too, which is similar to your A Flex mode in Respironics APAP. Be sure to compare your sleep in Respironics CPAP mode with C-flex to your sleep in APAP mode with A-flex.

[/quote]

That's the thing. I was using APAP mode with A-flex and was getting around an AHI of 3.6. Then I tried CPAP mode with C-flex and am fluctuating between 0 and 1.9 in AHI, though one night it said 4.5 (maybe an outlier?). I really think, though, that the CPAP mode is going to work for me. I'm going to research this forum and see why this would be. I'm thinking that once the throat closes, maybe the APAP doesn't do as good as job of opening it back up as does the constant pressure flow with CPAP does in keeping the throat open constantly. Just a guess, but am sooo thankful I now have the option of figuring it out.
03-25-2012 05:52 PM
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greatunclebill Offline

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Machine: Respironics System one Auto A-Flex
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Post: #18
RE: "Blown Up"

I love my EPR mode in Resmed too, which is similar to your A Flex mode in Respironics APAP. Be sure to compare your sleep in Respironics CPAP mode with C-flex to your sleep in APAP mode with A-flex.

[/quote]

That's the thing. I was using APAP mode with A-flex and was getting around an AHI of 3.6. Then I tried CPAP mode with C-flex and am fluctuating between 0 and 1.9 in AHI, though one night it said 4.5 (maybe an outlier?). I really think, though, that the CPAP mode is going to work for me. I'm going to research this forum and see why this would be. I'm thinking that once the throat closes, maybe the APAP doesn't do as good as job of opening it back up as does the constant pressure flow with CPAP does in keeping the throat open constantly. Just a guess, but am sooo thankful I now have the option of figuring it out.
[/quote]


some will disagree, i'm sure, but if the max pressure you need to overcome all obstructive apneas is for instance 12, and you are set to 12, and you can handle the constant in and out pressure of 12, and don't have major mask leaks, the cpap mode in 12 would be the best you can do for yourself. if i could take the constant pressure and didn't have leaks, i would park the apap and use the old cpap. this is what we relied on for years until they made the apap fully data capable and people started looking at numbers not too many years ago. let the "what if's" begin. LOL....
03-25-2012 06:18 PM
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Ltmedic66 Offline

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Post: #19
RE: "Blown Up"
(03-25-2012 06:18 PM)greatunclebill Wrote:  
(03-25-2012 05:52 PM)Jenny Wrote:  

Quote:I love my EPR mode in Resmed too, which is similar to your A Flex mode in Respironics APAP. Be sure to compare your sleep in Respironics CPAP mode with C-flex to your sleep in APAP mode with A-flex.

Quote:That's the thing. I was using APAP mode with A-flex and was getting around an AHI of 3.6. Then I tried CPAP mode with C-flex and am fluctuating between 0 and 1.9 in AHI, though one night it said 4.5 (maybe an outlier?). I really think, though, that the CPAP mode is going to work for me. I'm going to research this forum and see why this would be. I'm thinking that once the throat closes, maybe the APAP doesn't do as good as job of opening it back up as does the constant pressure flow with CPAP does in keeping the throat open constantly. Just a guess, but am sooo thankful I now have the option of figuring it out.


Quote:
some will disagree, i'm sure, but if the max pressure you need to overcome all obstructive apneas is for instance 12, and you are set to 12, and you can handle the constant in and out pressure of 12, and don't have major mask leaks, the cpap mode in 12 would be the best you can do for yourself. if i could take the constant pressure and didn't have leaks, i would park the apap and use the old cpap. this is what we relied on for years until they made the apap fully data capable and people started looking at numbers not too many years ago. let the "what if's" begin. LOL....

I tend to agree with your thoughts on this. APAP, I think, leads a lot of people to push their "lower" pressure down in the hopes of increased comfort. I tend to think the this allow a certain number apneas which the APAP must increase the pressure to adjust to.

For me, a pressure of 8 orginally felt like I was breathing against an elephant standing on my chest. I slowly adjusted to my prescribed pressure of 11, and currently do not even notice that pressure. I think if I had followed the logic of APAP, I would still be down at 8, and would have trouble with 11, since I probably would have set my range for 8-11.

Just my thoughts.
(This post was last modified: 03-25-2012 06:37 PM by Ltmedic66.)
03-25-2012 06:33 PM
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Jenny Offline

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Post: #20
RE: "Blown Up"
(03-25-2012 06:33 PM)Ltmedic66 Wrote:  
(03-25-2012 06:18 PM)greatunclebill Wrote:  
(03-25-2012 05:52 PM)Jenny Wrote:  

Quote:I love my EPR mode in Resmed too, which is similar to your A Flex mode in Respironics APAP. Be sure to compare your sleep in Respironics CPAP mode with C-flex to your sleep in APAP mode with A-flex.

Quote:That's the thing. I was using APAP mode with A-flex and was getting around an AHI of 3.6. Then I tried CPAP mode with C-flex and am fluctuating between 0 and 1.9 in AHI, though one night it said 4.5 (maybe an outlier?). I really think, though, that the CPAP mode is going to work for me. I'm going to research this forum and see why this would be. I'm thinking that once the throat closes, maybe the APAP doesn't do as good as job of opening it back up as does the constant pressure flow with CPAP does in keeping the throat open constantly. Just a guess, but am sooo thankful I now have the option of figuring it out.


Quote:
some will disagree, i'm sure, but if the max pressure you need to overcome all obstructive apneas is for instance 12, and you are set to 12, and you can handle the constant in and out pressure of 12, and don't have major mask leaks, the cpap mode in 12 would be the best you can do for yourself. if i could take the constant pressure and didn't have leaks, i would park the apap and use the old cpap. this is what we relied on for years until they made the apap fully data capable and people started looking at numbers not too many years ago. let the "what if's" begin. LOL....

I tend to agree with your thoughts on this. APAP, I think, leads a lot of people to push their "lower" pressure down in the hopes of increased comfort. I tend to think the this allow a certain number apneas which the APAP must increase the pressure to adjust to.

For me, a pressure of 8 orginally felt like I was breathing against an elephant standing on my chest. I slowly adjusted to my prescribed pressure of 11, and currently do not even notice that pressure. I think if I had followed the logic of APAP, I would still be down at 8, and would have trouble with 11, since I probably would have set my range for 8-11.

Just my thoughts.
I think I'm on the right track then. With nasal pillows (as long as I keep my mouth shut), the INFO screen says I have 0 leaks and I believe the C-flex aids in lowering the pressure upon exhalation, so this must be why it feels a lot better than straight CPAP.
03-25-2012 07:38 PM
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