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Bug-proofing equipment
#21
ARGH! I am so seriously agoraphobic that it is not even funny!
I'm now headed to wash out and thoroughly clean my hoses, mask, and humidifier and then seal it air tight till night!!!!!! Argh!
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#22
(06-05-2013, 11:49 PM)RonWessels Wrote: I hate that my first few posts on this forum end up being a debate, but I must disagree. Even without the humidifier, the air in the hose will be slightly warmer than room air for two reasons. Firstly, it will have picked up some heat from the blower motor and other waste heat from the *PAP device itself. Secondly, it will have gotten warmer because it has just been put under pressure. Whenever a gas is put under pressure, it will heat up, just like whenever you heat up a gas, it will expand. For the curious, search for "ideal gas law" in Wikipedia.

Now, I do agree that the condensation will be minimal, but you can't completely dismiss it.

Without a water tank, heating the air as it passes through the blower, and heating by compression will dry out the air, in terms of relative humidity. This would cause less condensation on the inside or outside of the hose with the machine running than without the machine running.

You would only get condensation if you cool the air or lower the pressure.

It only gets more moist if you pass the air over water in the tank. Or from your exhaled breath to the extent it goes back up the hose.
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Useful links.
Click here for information on the main alternative to CPAP.
If it's midnight and a DME tells you it's dark outside, go and check it yourself.
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#23
S9 machines want to blow air for a while to "cool down" the humidifier. I'm not quite sure if there are drawbacks to blocking the airflow when it's trying to do this.

I'm guessing that a least part of this cool down process is to keep moisture from the humidifier from getting back into the blower unit.

This might make something like a cloth plug more practical for nightly use as an overnight hose plug.

The OP seemed to be thinking about long term storage. Something like a pillowcase with the opening tightly sealed with a draw string might work well.

Sealed plastic containers tend to be a problem if you seal them in warm moist conditions and then the container cools down. You could also put some sort of desiccant into the bag. I guess in theory, if you sealed it up on a cold, dry day, it might not be a problem, but that doesn't seem that practical. Also, some water vapor does diffuse through many kinds of plastic bags over time.

You might want to be extra sure that whatever desiccant you use doesn't produce fumes. Some people recommend uncooked rice, but I'm a bit skeptical about that. I experimented with rice once, and tried to measure increased weight as it absorbed moisture, and it didn't get heavier.
Get the free SleepyHead software here.
Useful links.
Click here for information on the main alternative to CPAP.
If it's midnight and a DME tells you it's dark outside, go and check it yourself.
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#24
(06-05-2013, 11:49 PM)RonWessels Wrote:
(06-05-2013, 08:36 PM)mchad Wrote:
(06-05-2013, 06:48 PM)Sleepster Wrote: Without a humidifier, if the temperature of the air on the inside of the hose is the same as on the outside it's not likely you'll get condensation.

That's physics for ya! Sheldon Cooper would be proud.

I hate that my first few posts on this forum end up being a debate, but I must disagree. Even without the humidifier, the air in the hose will be slightly warmer than room air for two reasons.

If the air inside the hose is warmer then it's not at the same temperature.

Quote:Now, I do agree that the condensation will be minimal, but you can't completely dismiss it.

That's why I said it's not likely. It's possible that the air described by the OP could be near saturation (relative humidity near 100%, temperature near dew point) in which case there could be some condensation anywhere, inside or outside the hose.

Your argument that the air inside the hose will be warmer is not necessarily valid. When the CPAP machine compresses the air it will raise its temperature. Because of the higher temperature it will transfer heat energy to its surroundings. When the air subsequently leaves the CPAP machine and enters the hose its temperature will drop (it's moving from a region of higher pressure to a region of lower pressure so its temperature will drop). The net effect may be to raise the temperature, but it may be the opposite. Either way it doesn't matter.
Sleepster
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INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.
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#25
(06-06-2013, 10:49 AM)archangle Wrote: S9 machines want to blow air for a while to "cool down" the humidifier. I'm not quite sure if there are drawbacks to blocking the airflow when it's trying to do this.

I'm guessing that a least part of this cool down process is to keep moisture from the humidifier from getting back into the blower unit.

This might make something like a cloth plug more practical for nightly use as an overnight hose plug.

The OP seemed to be thinking about long term storage. Something like a pillowcase with the opening tightly sealed with a draw string might work well.

Sealed plastic containers tend to be a problem if you seal them in warm moist conditions and then the container cools down. You could also put some sort of desiccant into the bag. I guess in theory, if you sealed it up on a cold, dry day, it might not be a problem, but that doesn't seem that practical. Also, some water vapor does diffuse through many kinds of plastic bags over time.

You might want to be extra sure that whatever desiccant you use doesn't produce fumes. Some people recommend uncooked rice, but I'm a bit skeptical about that. I experimented with rice once, and tried to measure increased weight as it absorbed moisture, and it didn't get heavier.

My "BoatPaP" is a devillbiss Intellipap, not an S9 (thats my home unit), just FYI. No humidifier, no heat. Off is off, so no worries about plugging it up.

I wouldn't call is long term, as I'll be using it on weekends mostly. So 4-5 days of storage.

I'm going to plug the hose during the off hours (and days), let the intake filter do its job, shake out the mask and let the blower blow for a couple of seconds before donning it, and I should be good to go.

Hurricane Sandy repairs are almost done, so hopefully next weekend will be my first on 12v... I have an pretty advanced battery meter system, so i'll be able to measure the AH draw on the battery while the unit is running, which I'll be interested in seeing. Not too concerned, even for multiple night trips, as I have 300AH of battery and 50w of solar panel for daytime charging (Just got the panel, to replace a meager 10w I have been using. That's about 3 amps! Nice!)

Wish me luck!

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#26
(06-06-2013, 02:24 PM)mchad Wrote: My "BoatPaP" is a devillbiss Intellipap, not an S9 (thats my home unit), just FYI. No humidifier, no heat.

Hurricane Sandy repairs are almost done, so hopefully next weekend will be my first on 12v... I have an pretty advanced battery meter system, so i'll be able to measure the AH draw on the battery while the unit is running, which I'll be interested in seeing. Not too concerned, even for multiple night trips, as I have 300AH of battery and 50w of solar panel for daytime charging (Just got the panel, to replace a meager 10w I have been using. That's about 3 amps! Nice!)

Wish me luck!

FYI - the nice folks at DeVilbiss Healthcare have a prepared table that shows how much amperage is consumed by the IntelliPAP series at given pressures and how large a battery would be safely required to run a night. You just have to call and ask the tech support folks to email it. They were happy to do it.

OMyMyOHellYes

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#27
(06-06-2013, 02:24 PM)mchad Wrote: My "BoatPaP" is a devillbiss Intellipap, not an S9 (thats my home unit), just FYI.

"BoatPaP".... Too-funnyDielaughing
SuperSleeper
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INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.



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#28
(06-06-2013, 10:30 PM)SuperSleeper Wrote:
(06-06-2013, 02:24 PM)mchad Wrote: My "BoatPaP" is a devillbiss Intellipap, not an S9 (thats my home unit), just FYI.

"BoatPaP".... Too-funnyDielaughing

"BoatPaP"... Is that a reg. trademark???
MARK
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