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[COVID-19] CPAP use for Coronavirus mitigation & severe pneumonia
RE: CPAP use for Coronavirus mitigation & severe pneumonia
There is an article in The Australian newspaper, 4 April 2020, by Greg Sheridan, titled " Coronavirus: Pragmatic leaders build a bridge to the other side" (behind a paywall).


Quote:" ...The key to coronavirus patients surviving a stay in intensive care is most often the supply of ventilators. Morrison (Australian Prime Minister) and Hunt (Australian Health Minister) decided right at the start that they were not going to oversee a system in which the oldest and most vulnerable Australians were told they had to die because there were not enough resources to treat them.

So they have moved heaven and earth to flatten the curve, to buy time and to increase the number of ventilators. They will double the normal supply of 2200 to 4400, by using all the anaesthetic machines and ventilator-type equipment normally used in operating theatres and for elective surgery.

Beyond that, ResMed will make 500 ventilators of the type used at home by people suffering, say, motor neurone disease, who can’t breathe on their own. It will also make 5000 of a less invasive ventilator that is a kind of glorified sleep apnoea device. These are not perfect for intensive care but better than nothing.

If the first 500 ResMed invasive ventilators work perfectly well, ResMed will probably be asked to keep making them.

Simultaneously, the commonwealth is sourcing more ventilators overseas. By some time around mid-year, it hopes to have 7500 ventilators available..."
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RE: CPAP use for Coronavirus mitigation & severe pneumonia
(04-03-2020, 04:05 PM)SuperSleeper Wrote: Key point in your post--  "Ventilatorsos.com on their press release page says..."

Anyone can create a new website and create a "press release" page to say anything they want.  Scammers know how to make their scams seem legit.
...
Personally, I would only donate money or a CPAP machine to known legitimate organizations that have been around for years with an established history of legitimacy, or a site that was set up by a known, legitimate organization (in a way that can be independently verified).

From the UC Berkeley Engineering website: 
https://engineering.berkeley.edu/news/20...ntilators/

The second to last paragraph says: 
Members of the coalition are currently reaching out to local and state government officials, calling for a partnership among doctors, the FDA, manufacturers and logistic companies. They have also set up a website, VentilatorSOS.com, where members of the public can donate their unwanted sleep apnea machines.

So unless UC Berkeley Engineering has been hacked, this is a legitimate organization. 

I am going to contact one of the people listed at UC Berkeley and ask if they are giving out the instructions for the conversion process to other universities such as the one I live next to, and if there would be benefit in doing the conversion process in distributed sites across the country. And if they need people to pick up the CPAPs and deliver them to universities or hospitals.
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RE: CPAP use for Coronavirus mitigation & severe pneumonia
Okay, thanks for verifying that site.  Well-done

That's the kind of independent verification we need for sites like this.  We can't simply assume that they're all legit.

For a brand-new domain like this, they'd probably do well for themselves to provide a real, verifiable domain registration with legitimate contact info instead of a hidden private registration, and also provide links to a verifiable signed 501-c-3 application & Articles of Incorporation.  The lack of that info is what might cause hesitation for those who have concerns.

Thanks!
SuperSleeper
Apnea Board Administrator
www.ApneaBoard.com


INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.




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RE: CPAP use for Coronavirus mitigation & severe pneumonia
(04-03-2020, 06:39 PM)SuperSleeper Wrote: Okay, thanks for verifying that site.  Well-done

That's the kind of independent verification we need for sites like this.  We can't simply assume that they're all legit.

They'd probably do well for themselves to provide a real, verifiable domain registration instead of a hidden private registration, along with providing links to a verifiable signed 501-c-3 application & Articles of Incorporation.  The lack of that info is what might cause hesitation for those who have concerns.

Thanks!

As a past member of the user advisory board of the charity-rating Guidestar organization, the first thing I look for in any organization seeking donations is a 501 ©(3) tax status which allows for tax-deductible donations. Not because I want a tax write-off, but because most scammers are reluctant to apply to the IRS -- because it is a mandatory federal crime if they are caught. If the organization has been around for a while, I look at their IRS 990 tax return for the salaries involved and the percentage of donations that are used for programs instead of overhead and fundraising. Or, a good reason why they haven't filed a return. 

In the present case, I was looking for the tab that said donate your equipment with shipping instructions.

BTW -- it appears to me that the humidifiers are useless as they often lack the capacity for long-term use. So it might be just the blowers they want.
"The object in life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane." -- Marcus Aurelius
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RE: CPAP use for Coronavirus mitigation & severe pneumonia
Don’t know if this has been shared.   3 d printed adapter plus filters allows BiPAP to be used as ventilator.  
https://www.usnews.com/news/health-news/...entilators

Moderator note: The Northwell Health initiative is to use a "BiPAP" machine for invasive ventilation. This requires the patient to be intubated. This is NOT a DIY solution.
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RE: CPAP use for Coronavirus mitigation & severe pneumonia
I just had an idea for an alternative to clapping to help break up mucous in the lungs, mentioned in post 448.  Use a random orbital buffer.   I got one as a heavy duty back massager.   It's great.  It'll vibrate the hell out of that mucous.    They're cheap too, like $35.   Might have to search for something like orbital waxer/polisher.  

   
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RE: CPAP use for Coronavirus mitigation & severe pneumonia
(04-03-2020, 10:22 PM)Dougo Wrote: I just had an idea for an alternative to clapping to help break up mucous in the lungs, mentioned in post 448.  Use a random orbital buffer.   I got one as a heavy duty back massager.   It's great.  It'll vibrate the hell out of that mucous.    They're cheap too, like $35.   Might have to search for something like orbital waxer/polisher. 


Hmm... interesting idea.  Love it.

...and it has the side benefit of giving you a nice, shiny back.   Bigwink 

Okay, just kidding... couldn't resist.  Too-funny


But seriously, that might actually work... you've had good success while using it as a back massager?   Thinking-about
SuperSleeper
Apnea Board Administrator
www.ApneaBoard.com


INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.




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RE: CPAP use for Coronavirus mitigation & severe pneumonia
I guess someone would need to give it a spin.
Dave

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INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEBSITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.
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RE: CPAP use for Coronavirus mitigation & severe pneumonia
(04-03-2020, 10:22 PM)Dougo Wrote: I just had an idea for an alternative to clapping to help break up mucous in the lungs, mentioned in post 448.  Use a random orbital buffer.   I got one as a heavy duty back massager.   It's great.  It'll vibrate the hell out of that mucous.    They're cheap too, like $35.   Might have to search for something like orbital waxer/polisher.    

You do realize that you can induce a major (i.e. deadly) heart attack if someone actually did this? Life is a tradeoff and power tools are usually on the other side of the equation.
"The object in life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane." -- Marcus Aurelius
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Prep for overflow and pre-triaged aged kept home
Disclaimers everywhere else apply here: no medical advice is being given. The ideas presented here are tentative, exploratory, literally sketchy and might only  be tried, and quite possibly fail, at one's own discretion and risk, after exhausting all possibilities of gaining help from medical professionals.

First: If your are not interested in home "isolation room" ideas below, then use the following link to a site that has a lot of relevant breathing protection information. Note that much of the web page is devoted to the writer documenting his building a "do-it-yourself  (DIY) PAPR. (See "3M device" as linked below, I didn't know those were PAPRs we see worn in TV images from hospital isolation rooms. rooms). https://spacedevclub.org/papr/ The site mentions tent use similar to the DIY idea in the attachment as explained below.

Second, here is a seemingly plausible DIY home "isolation room" setup as is sketched in attachment:
SupersSleeper ID'd xPAP devices'  (open circuit) contamination problem (Post #166 below OP) vs  the closed system hospital ventilators that treat qualified covid inpatients. Tents indoors or outdoors have applications for reducing /controlling airborne virus concentration when a patient must be kept at home. 


Constructive suggestions and ciriticism are welcome. I give it a lot of attention because of present reports,   questions about drugs, about vaccines, about its origin (including possibility it is a weapon), about its nature and about its possible return next winter if it subsides as expected.  

As we know, there are reports of hospitals using xPAP (or only BiPap) successfully in certain less advanced Covid cases. I assume but do not yet know whether patients treated by xPAP in hospitals were wearing--say--local, bed-by-bed/head-by-head ventilation hoods in rooms other than the scarce isolation  rooms. Covid-care nurses tending xPAP users might even wear the battery powered PAPR  3M device similar to nurse protection equipment used in isolation rooms.) 

A caregiver for the sufferer using an xPAP at  home will lack adequate protection. And, as AB members rightfully point out, it's likely the sufferer has already infected fellow occupants there anyway. But not always, so  extra effort to minimize virus shedding inside the dwelling is important and, furthermore, sufferer's rebreathing of virus laden air, I think, would slow reduction/"burn-off" of his viral load and prolong recovery.

Concerned, member Zigiapnea, I and others have touched on possible solutions to the xPAP deficiency using tents indoors as SuperSleeper has mentioned for the more desirable outdoors use, weather and ground level domicile permitting. (In this thread about 8 posts on use of tents and fans to make a negative pressure space or hood can be found by searching the word "tent" for AB posts that have 400+ replies).

Notes regarding the pictured set up including its major-item (new price) costs of $150-250, roughly, which omits tenting framework/support improvisations beyond a typical tube-tent suspension rope which could be anchored variously.

  1. --Fan an advertised 750-900 cfm carpet dryer or another (popular HF tool store) fan, all $80-100 (and would be loud). 
  1. --6 inch diameter uninsulated flex duct as used in HVAC systems $12-25 for 8-12 ft
  1. --Tarp, rope, tape $35-75
  1. --1/4 in x 4 ft x 4 ft plwood window filler (with 6 in diameter duct hole cut out) $20
  1. --one 2-4 foot section of 6 inch stove pipe, to extend the duct through the plywood window filler and beyond the window
If patient's head were far enough inside the tent (What would be adequate? Do a smoke test. ) the tent's inlet-air velocities at the wall and floor might be adequate, but seem doubtful after reviewing OSHA standards for removing toxic fumes. Sneeze and cough backflows of virus into the room have to be prevented. Accordingly, modifying the sketched scheme to bring the at-foot inlet of the duct up close to the mask's vent--say, to not more than 9 inches (<=1.5 x 6 inches per OSHA for hoods), the closer the better to ensure virus capture.

Assuming use of a cot to sleep and sit up on (to eat?), a nearby commode could be used near by while continuing close-up use of the duct vacuum to capture breath and viral shedding.


If using a master bedroom with adjacent bathroom, the bath fan could contribute to negative pressure. Having a winward front door or window of the home open and the master bedroom door cracked would help--with a fan driving in more air? Even better. 



Needing more attention:
1.  Fan matters: Sizing,  type, and static pressure capabilities are uncertain, but claims for 700-900 cfm fans (lacking pressure info) I checked seem in ball park for trial to satisfy about an  effective 250-300 cfm demand to maintain a (presumably adequate 15mph 6-inch duct inlet velocity wherever the inlet ends in the tent). No doubt a common, large non-oscillating floor fan would eject a lot of viral load at a window or door, but turbulence blowback, would work against it.


2. Other matters to consider:
Potential motor overheating, noise, tent collapse and suffocation, putting next door neighbors in a virus shower, providing "resealable" ingress and egress (eating, toilet, bedding), temperature range, prevailing wind and interior draft directions and effects on low level airflows in the room


Other: 

Alternatives: Sleeping cot or not, poly tenting materials, safer but light tent framing (even inflatable pool-floaty A-frame with poly top "seal" (vacuum permitting), large vertical-freezer shipping box to house lower part of cot and sleeping user, other fan locations (but always keeping head to toe air flow and vacuum inside a poly-like tent or other material), a "tunneled" cot abutting outdoor screen of a slider door with the fan close-up outside the screen pulling air through tunnel, self drilling heavy duty picture anchors for tube tent ropes....

Note re attachment: Its shown as an inserted attachment just below this note in the editing window, but does not show in PREVIEW. If it does not show in the post I'll immediately try to post it by itself close below.

2SB

[Image: attachment.php?aid=21551]


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