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[CPAP] AUTO or not - Is the auto-CPAP machine inherently better than a CPAP?
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SuperSleeper Offline

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Machine: PR System One REMstar Auto (DS560)
Mask Type: Nasal pillows
Mask Make & Model: ResMed Mirage Swift II
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CPAP Pressure: 12.5 - 18.5 cmH20 (auto range)
CPAP Software: SleepyHead

Other Comments: Have diabetes Type II

Sex: Male
Location: Illinois, USA

Post: #61
RE: AUTO or not - Is the auto-CPAP machine inherently better than a CPAP? [copied]
Without adding to much more confusion to this thread, it looks to me like anyone wanting an Auto-CPAP for a really low price might want to take a look at the DeVilbiss IntelliPAP AutoAdjust with SmartFlex

It sells for around $400 at most online DMEs... it uses an SD card for recording data, has a software option (SmartLink - $150) or you can use the free SleepyHead software with it.

With those kind of prices for data-recording Auto-CPAP, why would anyone not want one of these as opposed to standard CPAP? It has most all the functionality and features as the more expensive Auto-CPAP machines... but this price point is extremely low for what you get. Heated Humidifier can be added on for only $30 more.... Even has option to operate on 12-volt power. Plus it has a 3 year warranty (PR System One and ResMed S9s have 2 year warranties).

SuperSleeper
Apnea Board Administrator
www.ApneaBoard.com


INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.

02-25-2012 07:08 PM
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SuperSleeper Offline

Administrators

Posts: 9,966
Joined: Feb 2012

Machine: PR System One REMstar Auto (DS560)
Mask Type: Nasal pillows
Mask Make & Model: ResMed Mirage Swift II
Humidifier: none
CPAP Pressure: 12.5 - 18.5 cmH20 (auto range)
CPAP Software: SleepyHead

Other Comments: Have diabetes Type II

Sex: Male
Location: Illinois, USA

Post: #62
RE: AUTO or not - Is the auto-CPAP machine inherently better than a CPAP? [copied]
archangle Wrote:
SuperSleeper,(time=1325196125) Wrote:Without adding to much more confusion to this thread, it looks to me like anyone wanting an Auto-CPAP for a really low price might want to take a look at the DeVilbiss IntelliPAP AutoAdjust with SmartFlex

It sells for around $400 at most online DMEs... it uses an SD card for recording data, has a software option (SmartLink - $150) or you can use the free SleepyHead software with it.
I believe you can't save data from the IntelliPAP unless you buy the optional SmartLink Therapy module for about $100 more. Even then, I don't think it records flow waveforms, which is a big disadvantage.

I have no idea how good the APAP function is, but I think the data capabilities are poor.
02-25-2012 07:09 PM
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SuperSleeper Offline

Administrators

Posts: 9,966
Joined: Feb 2012

Machine: PR System One REMstar Auto (DS560)
Mask Type: Nasal pillows
Mask Make & Model: ResMed Mirage Swift II
Humidifier: none
CPAP Pressure: 12.5 - 18.5 cmH20 (auto range)
CPAP Software: SleepyHead

Other Comments: Have diabetes Type II

Sex: Male
Location: Illinois, USA

Post: #63
RE: AUTO or not - Is the auto-CPAP machine inherently better than a CPAP? [copied]
Ltmedic66 Wrote:
Sleepster,(time=1325195687) Wrote:
archangle,(time=1325191539) Wrote:Was the inhale pressure on your bilevel machine higher than what you hand on the previous machine.

Centrals are weird. Sometimes they seem to change on their own or change for strange reasons.
The CPAP pressure was 13. The BiPAP pressures were originally 13 IPAP and 8 EPAP. They are now 11 and 8.

I had no clear airway events on CPAP, but they immediately appeared in large numbers (about 15 per hour IIRC) when I switched to BiPAP. Now, with the lower IPAP I have only about 3 per hour. They are, and were, always short in duration, lasting only 10-15 seconds; and by far the major contribution to my AHI.
I have read studies that allude to BiPAP inducing CA in some patients. I think it has something to do with the changing pressures. You experience seems to support this.
02-25-2012 07:09 PM
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SuperSleeper Offline

Administrators

Posts: 9,966
Joined: Feb 2012

Machine: PR System One REMstar Auto (DS560)
Mask Type: Nasal pillows
Mask Make & Model: ResMed Mirage Swift II
Humidifier: none
CPAP Pressure: 12.5 - 18.5 cmH20 (auto range)
CPAP Software: SleepyHead

Other Comments: Have diabetes Type II

Sex: Male
Location: Illinois, USA

Post: #64
RE: AUTO or not - Is the auto-CPAP machine inherently better than a CPAP? [copied]
HeadGear Wrote:
archangle,(time=1325202545) Wrote:I believe you can't save data from the IntelliPAP unless you buy the optional SmartLink Therapy module for about $100 more. Even then, I don't think it records flow waveforms, which is a big disadvantage.

I have no idea how good the APAP function is, but I think the data capabilities are poor.
After all this debate, the adage, "you get what you pay for," comes to roost. Of course, it is equally true that "a fool and his money are soon parted!" Do your research folks, buy the best machine you can afford, or that insurance can buy, at the best possible DME, preferably at the most competitive price! It is my conviction that this forum helps greatly, if not sometimes too late for the newbie, first time user! But, "live and learn!" Happy New Year - coming up soon!
02-25-2012 07:10 PM
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SuperSleeper Offline

Administrators

Posts: 9,966
Joined: Feb 2012

Machine: PR System One REMstar Auto (DS560)
Mask Type: Nasal pillows
Mask Make & Model: ResMed Mirage Swift II
Humidifier: none
CPAP Pressure: 12.5 - 18.5 cmH20 (auto range)
CPAP Software: SleepyHead

Other Comments: Have diabetes Type II

Sex: Male
Location: Illinois, USA

Post: #65
RE: AUTO or not - Is the auto-CPAP machine inherently better than a CPAP?
archangle,(time=1325202545) Wrote:I believe you can't save data from the IntelliPAP unless you buy the optional SmartLink Therapy module for about $100 more. Even then, I don't think it records flow waveforms, which is a big disadvantage.

I have no idea how good the APAP function is, but I think the data capabilities are poor.
Thanks... I wasn't aware of that.

I would think that if one wants an Auto-CPAP and has only about $400, the IntelliPAP might fit the bill, even though the data recorded is less than other machines. In other words, it might be better for someone who was considering a standard, constant-pressure CPAP to look into the IntelliPAP Auto, given the fact that it can still be operated in CPAP mode and costs about the same as a low-end non-Auto CPAP.

You get what you pay for, indeed. But it seems if you want an Auto and can't afford the higher end ones, at least you get some versatility in this unit that you don't have with other straight CPAPs. Even though it may not show waveforms, at least reporting AHI and other basic data is helpful.

SuperSleeper
Apnea Board Administrator
www.ApneaBoard.com


INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.

02-25-2012 07:10 PM
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zimlich Offline

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Posts: 392
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Machine: Respironics PR System One BiPap Auto SV Advanced
Mask Type: Nasal mask
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Humidifier: System One
CPAP Pressure: 8-20 ASV, 8 EPAP,PS 12
CPAP Software: Not using software

Other Comments: I use the Quattro FFM when necessary

Sex: Female
Location: Norfolk, VA

Post: #66
RE: AUTO or not - Is the auto-CPAP machine inherently better than a CPAP?
I used to say no, but now I believe for someone compliant (don't want an expensive machine in the closet) and experienced as it's more versatile.
03-15-2012 11:10 AM
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greatunclebill Offline

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Machine: Respironics System one Auto A-Flex
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Location: L.A. (Lower Alabama)

Post: #67
RE: AUTO or not - Is the auto-CPAP machine inherently better than a CPAP?
i think if you can take the constant pressure and don't generally have leaks, cpap set to your doctor's prescribed pressure is the best way to go and is inherently better. this is because all apneas will be blocked, the ultimate goal of this therapy. now if your doctor is wrong, you might need a new study. this ideal situation is an apap that you can use to check yer stuff with low and high numbers set sometimes, but routinely run straight cpap mode.

i also know that some people like me can not take the high pressure and would be non-compliant without the apap (other lung issues). for these people the apap is inherently better. in the last month i have used my apap more nights, more hours, than i used cpap in the previous 10 years total because i could not take the constant 12 in, 12 out even with c-flex the last year or so.

for those fixated on data and controlling their own, apap is the only way and inherently better for them.

in the end it's a scientific question for the experts to decide which is inherently better, not us. we can all have opinions and decide which is inherently better for us personally based on our personal needs and desires.
03-15-2012 12:41 PM
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CHanlon Offline

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Machine: ResMed S9 Autoset
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CPAP Pressure: 12 -20
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Post: #68
RE: AUTO or not - Is the auto-CPAP machine inherently better than a CPAP?
(03-15-2012 12:41 PM)greatunclebill Wrote:  i think if you can take the constant pressure and don't generally have leaks, cpap set to your doctor's prescribed pressure is the best way to go and is inherently better. this is because all apneas will be blocked, the ultimate goal of this therapy. now if your doctor is wrong, you might need a new study. this ideal situation is an apap that you can use to check yer stuff with low and high numbers set sometimes, but routinely run straight cpap mode.

I don't really agree with this - I just ran a 18 day straight stretch of AHI 0.0 on my APAP... and then bounced a few days with various numbers usually under 1. APAP is perfectly capable of blocking all apneas. The catch with CPAP is that if I were running the pressure that my doctor finally decided on - 14 cm H2O - when I've been averaging *more* then 14, I might not have had that result. Now, in this particular case, the average pressures for that 18 days were less then I'm used to seeing, between 14 and 15.
03-15-2012 01:19 PM
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Netskier Offline

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Machine: Resmed S9 Autoset, Mirage Quattro Full-Face Mask, Slimline tube.
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Humidifier: H5i, but not being used.
CPAP Pressure: 6-13 cm H20; Ramp OFF.
CPAP Software: SleepyHead

Other Comments: Currently studying Reversal of Aging.

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Location: Los Angeles South Bay, about 20 min South of Downtown LA.

Post: #69
RE: AUTO or not - Is the auto-CPAP machine inherently better than a CPAP? [copied]
(02-25-2012 06:28 PM)SuperSleeper Wrote:  
PaulaO Wrote:I am probably going to be buying a new machine out of pocket in the new year. I got the Resmed Escape and I really hate that I get no information or control over my own treatment. I keep going back and forth over what kind to get and it was you, Zimlich, that convinced me that an Auto is good because you can also choose to go straight CPAP.

Right now, I am experiencing a slow rise in blood pressure. Could be several factors but the last time it did this, it was my sleep apnea. We raised the pressure and it went back down. The ONLY "test" I had in relation to OSA at that time was an overnight use with an oximeter. The doc was just guessing, based on what I assume was lower O2 at night. If I had an Auto or at least one that tracked data, I would have known much sooner that it was OSA to blame. Instead, I went through a series of tests including a stress test and a heart cath! (scary test, lemme tell you)

So in January or Feb., I will be getting an Auto that can also go straight CPAP. I will check the data on a regular basis and if something comes up like it is now, I can switch it to Auto and see what happens. I am taking control of my own health, not sitting idly by while we all guess and wonder.

For what it is worth, my regular doc at Kaiser HMO in the LA area never mentioned PAP therapy for my hypertension, but just keep changing drugs. Not happy with my pressure staying high, I went back to the walk-in Kaiser clinic, and luckily drew a temporary doctor whose day job was heading a sleep-medicine team at UCI (Univ of Cal at Irvine), and he was a total wizard. He said I had a good chance of my bp returning to normal if I got a PAP machine, and he recommended an "Autoset", which I think meant the Resmed S9 Autoset.

I like mine a lot, and my bp is beginning to come down.

My age is none of my mind's business. --- Netskier
03-16-2012 12:38 AM
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Netskier Offline

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Posts: 125
Joined: Mar 2012

Machine: Resmed S9 Autoset, Mirage Quattro Full-Face Mask, Slimline tube.
Mask Type: Full face mask
Mask Make & Model:
Humidifier: H5i, but not being used.
CPAP Pressure: 6-13 cm H20; Ramp OFF.
CPAP Software: SleepyHead

Other Comments: Currently studying Reversal of Aging.

Sex: Male
Location: Los Angeles South Bay, about 20 min South of Downtown LA.

Post: #70
RE: AUTO or not - Is the auto-CPAP machine inherently better than a CPAP? [copied]
(02-25-2012 06:48 PM)SuperSleeper Wrote:  
Ltmedic66,(time=1324832803) Wrote:Again, welcome to for-profit, market-based health care.
Our current health care system in the U.S. is not a market-based system.


Welcome to our government-controlled, anti-free market current health care system-- because that is what we currently have. It's socialism at the core, unless you choose to play word games and re-define the definition of "socialism".

Get the stupid government out of my way, please. We don't need government to protect us from ourselves... that kind of nanny-state socialism ends up turning into fascism politically. It make things much more expensive for all of us and with it, less freedom of choice. I'm biased because I'm an American, maybe. This country was not founded upon socialism... it was founded on free-market capitalism... and no, we don't have free-market capitalism today, we have a blend of corporatism & socialism.

I agree with almost everything you wrote, and certainly agree with what you meant. I just want to suggest a modification of your terminology. In the US, the corporations control the Government's regulatory agencies through the process known as "regulatory capture". When corporations control the government it is called "corporatism", which is how Mussolini defined "fascism". Fascism equals Corporatism. We have corporatism now, i.e., we have fascism now. This is not Socialism. Even though the German name for their fascism was "National Socialism", this was just Orwellian newspeak.

Socialism means government-provided services, such as public police depts, public fire depts, public sewers, public libraries, public streets, public utilities, public parks, public schools, public street lighting, public health depts, etc. Nearly everyone supports this form of socialism.

Wikipedia has a nice discussion of it here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism.

Disagreements develop over other definitions of socialism. Scandinavia has the combination of socialized public services plus corporations for manufacturing, and have a much higher standard of living than we in the US. For example, bus drivers there typically own two houses, fully paid for, one to live in most of the year, the other to live in during vacation, which is six-to-eight wks per year.

Anyhow, the anti-free market economic system we have right now is Fascism, not socialism, and that is my main point.

My age is none of my mind's business. --- Netskier
03-16-2012 01:31 AM
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