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CPAP Epic Fail.....Dental Appliance Questions
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PaulaO2 Offline
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Machine: S9 Autoset
Mask Type: Full face mask
Mask Make & Model: F&P Simplus
Humidifier: H5i
CPAP Pressure: 14-20
CPAP Software: SleepyHead

Other Comments: Ehlers-Danlos Syndrome, Hypermobility Type; chronic sarcasm

Sex: Undisclosed
Location: western NC, USA

Post: #11
RE: CPAP Epic Fail.....Dental Appliance Questions
Oh, and you don't need the entire ACE bandage. Just a couple turns or three should do it. Just cut it and pin in place.

PaulaO2
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www.ApneaBoard.com


Breathe deeply and count to zen.

INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.
10-01-2015 10:52 AM
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bigbearclaw85 Offline

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Posts: 10
Joined: Oct 2015

Machine: Phillips System One
Mask Type: Full face mask
Mask Make & Model: Phillips Amara View Compact Version
Humidifier: Phillips System One
CPAP Pressure: 8
CPAP Software: Not using software

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Sex: Male
Location: Chicago

Post: #12
RE: CPAP Epic Fail.....Dental Appliance Questions
Well I can get the chin strap from sleep center maybe and go that route first. So I guess the chin strap is considered a temporary thing until you train your mouth to stay closed? I think i'm having trouble at some point during the night breathing through my nose for some reason.


(10-01-2015 10:51 AM)PaulaO2 Wrote:  Ah. Typical new user problem. Do you have an old ACE bandages around? Take one and wrap it around your jaw and head, like they used to if you had the mumps. You want it tight enough to hold your mouth closed when you relax but not so tight you cannot chew with effort. You want to be able to open your mouth in an emergency.

This is a poor man's chin strap. Try this for a night or two. If it works, and it helps keep your mouth closed, then you can get a real chin strap and use that. A full face mask (FFM) will also work but they tend to leak and are hard to fit. Try the chin strap first. It is quite possible that after a month or so, you can stop using the chin strap. What is happening is the air is blowing your mouth open. There's a trick to somehow another train your tongue to do something with the roof of your mouth but I've never managed to do it. Others can explain it better so I won't even try.
10-01-2015 10:54 AM
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PaulaO2 Offline
Wiki Editor
Moderators

Posts: 8,065
Joined: Feb 2012

Machine: S9 Autoset
Mask Type: Full face mask
Mask Make & Model: F&P Simplus
Humidifier: H5i
CPAP Pressure: 14-20
CPAP Software: SleepyHead

Other Comments: Ehlers-Danlos Syndrome, Hypermobility Type; chronic sarcasm

Sex: Undisclosed
Location: western NC, USA

Post: #13
RE: CPAP Epic Fail.....Dental Appliance Questions
You can try the real chin strap and see if that helps. Do you have the humidifier going? It could be your nose is drying out and temporarily clogging. Then you open your mouth and the clog clears.

The chin strap is cheaper and easier to try first before going the FFM route. I don't open my mouth but I lip leak. I tried all sorts of stuff to get it to stop (it started suddenly) so I finally started using one. Once I found one I liked, I love it. I still have my old nasal pillows and I take them with me when I travel just in case something happens to the bigger, bulkier, fragile FFM, but really, I love my Simplus. It was a tough route to get here though! Wow was it. BUT I would go back to my nasal pillows in a heartbeat if I could. I miss the simplicity of just putting a mask on and laying down. Of a mask I could put on with one arm. I love the Nuance and miss it.

where I discuss going FFM: http://www.apneaboard.com/forums/Thread-...-going-FFM
where I trialed several: http://www.apneaboard.com/forums/Thread-Equipment-P-s-fun-with-FFM
where I discuss the success: http://www.apneaboard.com/forums/Thread-...ner-for-me

PaulaO2
Apnea Board Moderator
www.ApneaBoard.com


Breathe deeply and count to zen.

INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.
10-01-2015 11:08 AM
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49er Offline

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Posts: 237
Joined: Apr 2012

Machine: VPAP-S
Mask Type: Nasal mask
Mask Make & Model: Sleep Weaver Elan Soft Cloth Nasal Mask
Humidifier: H5i
CPAP Pressure: 13.6/9.6
CPAP Software: SleepyHead

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Sex: Undisclosed
Location:

Post: #14
RE: CPAP Epic Fail.....Dental Appliance Questions
(10-01-2015 08:34 AM)bigbearclaw85 Wrote:  5 days on nasal CPAP and I am getting much worse. Jaw pain increasing, sleeping worse, panic attacks, air leaking from mouth. I'm sleeping so poorly I had to quit CPAP for a day to sleep better. My apnea is mild but its causing me to grind at night so I need to correct it. I also have low testosterone and the meds make your apnea worse. I am going to try switching to a full mask or nasal pillows next I guess.

I am very interested in using the dental appliance and wanted to chat with people who use it and see what they think. I have a friend who uses a dental appliance and swears by it. I just wanted a few more opinions before I give up on CPAP and make the switch.

My sleep doc discouraged using the dental appliance because it can cause TMJ. At this point I am going to end up with TMJ anyways from grinding so much from apnea and being stressed by the CPAP. I need to do something to get rid of this pain because custom night guards for just grinding don't help.

Any help is appreciated. Thanks!

bigbearclaw,

I definitely understand your frustrations as one who has struggled with pap therapy for many many months and is looking at other other alternatives. If I were in your situation, I would look at trying alternative meds masks to see if that lessens your pain and enables you to sleep. Additionally, you might consider looking for a dentist who specifically focuses on TMJ issues who might be able to make a more suitable dental guard.

Having said that, if you still decide to go the dental appliance route, according to a link to a 2011 study I previously posted on the board people with mild apnea ranges had a 75% chance of reducing their AHI to below 5 with an adjustable appliance. A fixed one didn't work as well.

https://advancedbrainmonitoring.app.box.com/s/hjma0yqals7pjn8s11y4

Best of luck.

49er
10-01-2015 11:31 AM
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trish6hundred Offline

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Machine: Resmed S9 AutoSet for Her
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Mask Make & Model: Fisher & Paykel Simplus
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CPAP Software: Not using software

Other Comments: I started CPAP in 2008. Totally blind since birth.

Sex: Female
Location: Missouri, USA

Post: #15
RE: CPAP Epic Fail.....Dental Appliance Questions
Hi bigbearclaw85,
WELCOME! to the forum.!
I’m sorry you are having a rough time getting used to your machine.
You haven’t been on it that long and for some people, it takes quite a while to get used to. Maybe if you try a different type of mask it will work better so don’t give up.
Much success to you with your CPAP therapy.

trish6hundred
10-01-2015 03:35 PM
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OpalRose Offline

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Posts: 3,168
Joined: Nov 2014

Machine: PR System One REMstar Auto 560 with A Flex
Mask Type: Nasal pillows
Mask Make & Model: AirFit P10 For Her
Humidifier: REMStar heated humidifier with heated hose
CPAP Pressure: Auto Cpap 10-13 AFLEX 1
CPAP Software: SleepyHead EncoreBasic

Other Comments: Started CPAP Therapy October 23, 2014

Sex: Female
Location: Northeast Ohio, USA

Post: #16
RE: CPAP Epic Fail.....Dental Appliance Questions
bigbearclaw85,
Ok I will try to explain the the "tongue trick". It's been explained many times on this forum. When I first started, I had to use a chin strap, but once I mastered this tongue trick, I didn't need the chin strap.

Place your tongue to the roof of your mouth, with tip of tongue behind front teeth. Then gently suck upward. When you do this, your tongue falls into a natural place and the back of your tongue then makes a seal at the back of throat where air wants to escape out of your mouth.

Many master this, but some do not. I don't know much about TMJ, and I don't know if this would cause you more pain, so that is something you will have to determine.

I wish you well on whatever you decide, but I hope you will give CPAP a chance.
Wink

OpalRose
(This post was last modified: 10-01-2015 04:12 PM by OpalRose.)
10-01-2015 04:11 PM
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surferdude2 Offline

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Machine: ResMed S9 AutoSet
Mask Type: Full face mask
Mask Make & Model: Mirage Quattro & Optilife
Humidifier: ResMed H5i @ #3 if nose breathing & #5 if mouth breathing
CPAP Pressure: 12 ~ 20 & 11 ~12 if nasal mask
CPAP Software: ResScan SleepyHead

Other Comments: Late stage 2 emphysema

Sex: Male
Location: Mousetown, Southern Illinois

Post: #17
RE: CPAP Epic Fail.....Dental Appliance Questions
Hi bigbearclaw85

I can tell you one very important thing about the dental devices..It is absolutely imperative that you get one that is user adjustable. The tiny difference of 1mm. can make or break the therapy this device can give. Most users can get by with 3 mm. displacement but I found that I required 5 mm. . If my device hadn't been adjustable, and had been fixed at the 3 mm. average setting, I would have given up as a failure. Instead I was able to advance the displacement setting by 1 mm. at a time and found that 5 mm. was the spot for me.

A second consideration that affects the ability to use one of these devices is, if you can breathe through your nose exclusively, you'll have a better chance of making it work. The device tends to block enough air that it makes those who are mouth breathers feel like they are being suffocated.

FWIW, The device I use is SnoreRX so Google that for more info. As I recall, I paid about $100 for it.

I only use mine occasionally since I have found that avoiding the supine position makes my apnea so tolerable that I can forgo all therapy under normal condition.

Dude
10-01-2015 07:13 PM
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bigbearclaw85 Offline

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Posts: 10
Joined: Oct 2015

Machine: Phillips System One
Mask Type: Full face mask
Mask Make & Model: Phillips Amara View Compact Version
Humidifier: Phillips System One
CPAP Pressure: 8
CPAP Software: Not using software

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Sex: Male
Location: Chicago

Post: #18
RE: CPAP Epic Fail.....Dental Appliance Questions
Here is my equipment. I just started a new mask last night.

Machine - Phillips System One and Humidifier
Mask - Phillips Amara View (new compact style that doesn't cover nose)
Pressure 8
Humidifier 3

I woke up about 5 times last night but I don't know why. It's my first time using this full mask. I had to take mask off each time for a few minutes. The full mask was more cumbersome than nasal but I breath better in it when I open my mouth in middle of night.

I hope this treatment eventually stops me from grinding mu teeth. My jaw hurts so bad all the time. I need a full nights rest soon. I'll keep you posted on my progress and I appreciate all your help. This is a great forum.
10-02-2015 05:49 AM
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49er Offline

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Posts: 237
Joined: Apr 2012

Machine: VPAP-S
Mask Type: Nasal mask
Mask Make & Model: Sleep Weaver Elan Soft Cloth Nasal Mask
Humidifier: H5i
CPAP Pressure: 13.6/9.6
CPAP Software: SleepyHead

Other Comments:

Sex: Undisclosed
Location:

Post: #19
RE: CPAP Epic Fail.....Dental Appliance Questions
(10-01-2015 07:13 PM)surferdude2 Wrote:  Hi bigbearclaw85

I can tell you one very important thing about the dental devices..It is absolutely imperative that you get one that is user adjustable. The tiny difference of 1mm. can make or break the therapy this device can give. Most users can get by with 3 mm. displacement but I found that I required 5 mm. . If my device hadn't been adjustable, and had been fixed at the 3 mm. average setting, I would have given up as a failure. Instead I was able to advance the displacement setting by 1 mm. at a time and found that 5 mm. was the spot for me.

A second consideration that affects the ability to use one of these devices is, if you can breathe through your nose exclusively, you'll have a better chance of making it work. The device tends to block enough air that it makes those who are mouth breathers feel like they are being suffocated.

FWIW, The device I use is SnoreRX so Google that for more info. As I recall, I paid about $100 for it.

I only use mine occasionally since I have found that avoiding the supine position makes my apnea so tolerable that I can forgo all therapy under normal condition.

Dude

Sorry for this OT response but Dude, I would love to correspond with you to find out more about what you are doing. How do I get in touch with you since you turned off PM?

As an FYI, I tried sleeping on my side yesterday with a specific pillow and felt a million times more functional than I ever did with pap therapy. I know, one time doesn't prove anything but as one who has greatly struggled for close to 4 years, I am definitely going to work on fine tuning this if I can. So that's why I would love to hear more about your situation.
10-02-2015 06:13 AM
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PaulaO2 Offline
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Moderators

Posts: 8,065
Joined: Feb 2012

Machine: S9 Autoset
Mask Type: Full face mask
Mask Make & Model: F&P Simplus
Humidifier: H5i
CPAP Pressure: 14-20
CPAP Software: SleepyHead

Other Comments: Ehlers-Danlos Syndrome, Hypermobility Type; chronic sarcasm

Sex: Undisclosed
Location: western NC, USA

Post: #20
RE: CPAP Epic Fail.....Dental Appliance Questions
Hanrahan, I moved your question in the one thread to a thread of its own. You can find it here:
http://www.apneaboard.com/forums/Thread-...Chin-strap

PaulaO2
Apnea Board Moderator
www.ApneaBoard.com


Breathe deeply and count to zen.

INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.
10-04-2015 01:35 AM
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