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[CPAP] OSCAR confusing me with leaks/apneas
#41
RE: OSCAR confusing me with leaks/apneas
forgot to include the cluster screenshot.


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#42
RE: OSCAR confusing me with leaks/apneas
I very very strongly suspect that most of those clusters are really sleep-wake junk. I'd check out a close up view to be sure but events that are that close you waking up we usually ignore, yours are persistent so look closer.
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#43
RE: OSCAR confusing me with leaks/apneas
(05-03-2021, 06:31 PM)sheepless Wrote: re clusters, I see what you're saying. I have a different concept of clusters as illustrated by this screenshot but I get your point.

watching your video, what's your guess as to whether movement is causing events vs events causing movement? it would be nice to know but probably not necessary since we have to continue work to reduce ahi under any circumstances and since (afaik) rls and plm are treated the same, you can seek relief for rls without having to prove plm to see if treatment helps.

I don't know if the plm flow rate pattern looks different in different people. I'm only certain what it looks like in my flow rate and I've seen that same pattern in the charts of maybe a dozen other members. I do suspect a 'softer' version in my charts that looks more sinusoidal, more like what you show in the highlighted area around 3:31 in post #39, but I haven't confirmed it. if that was my screenshot, I'd say it's plm. I'd expect it to last longer but I do occasionally see evidence of just a few kicks in my charts now and again.

I don't recall mine ever being flagged as csr or periodic breathing. sometimes my plm pattern is punctuated by events, mostly not.

as you say, if you have rls, there's a good chance you also have plm. all I can say is to repeat that plm makes dialing in pap therapy all the more difficult, pap therapy won't help plm, the machines' reaction to our respiratory response to plm tend to be disturbing to sleep, and your best bet is to seek relief with the assistance of your doctor by trying supplements if deficient and/or various prescription meds.  

I don't think those of us with plm will ever achieve restful restorative sleep through cpap alone. even treated, that goal is elusive. with meds, my plm is maybe 80% reduced but the remaining 20% continues to disturb and awaken.

I hope you keep us posted on how you deal with this.

I will do my best, I will say that my sleep is ever improving.

I've been keeping track of sleep cycles with Fitbit (the Versa model) and it has becoming less and less clustered as the nights go by. Last night I had my first uninterrupted REM cycle for the first time I've ever recalled seeing. (Course, I'm not entirely sure how accurate this model could be on that) Most of my disruptions occur after sunrise it seems.
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#44
RE: OSCAR confusing me with leaks/apneas
(05-04-2021, 10:19 AM)godletmesleep Wrote: I've been keeping track of sleep cycles with Fitbit (the Versa model) and it has becoming less and less clustered as the nights go by. Last night I had my first uninterrupted REM cycle for the first time I've ever recalled seeing. (Course, I'm not entirely sure how accurate this model could be on that) Most of my disruptions occur after sunrise it seems.

I'm another extremely skeptical fitbit user. But I have had 2 sleep studies in 5 months, and my fitbit is astonishingly good at lining up sleep stages to the PSG. The heart rate monitor tracked the pulse-ox exactly -- except for the one reading where the pulse-ox was obviously wrong. Even the stupid "estimated oxygen variation" graph had some jigs and jags at the desats. (It's not their fault that graph is stupid. They have to be vague to keep from getting in trouble with the FDA for selling an unlicensed medical device.)

When I line up with OSCAR data it looks pretty good, too. Like one spot where the fitbit saw a 30-second arousal about two minutes after the OSCAR flow rate graph looked like there was a 30-second arousal right after an OA. And I looked at my cpap clock and discovered its clock was off two minutes!

If we can wrestle with Fitbit to get our full data, I can see that there might be some Fitbit channels in OSCAR's future, LOL.
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#45
RE: OSCAR confusing me with leaks/apneas
@cathyf

what fitbit device do you use?

(I had the first fitbit watch that was a heart rate monitor. I bet your fitbit is a lot more capable than mine was.)

Dave
DaveL
Compliant for over 30 years

I'm just a cpap user like you. I don't give medical advice. I hope to learn from you, and share my experiences with you. 
Seek the advice of a physician before seeking treatment for medical conditions including sleep apnea. Sleep-well

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#46
RE: OSCAR confusing me with leaks/apneas
(05-05-2021, 01:21 PM)DaveL Wrote: @cathyf

what fitbit device do you use?

(I had the first fitbit watch that was a heart rate monitor.  I bet your fitbit is a lot more capable than mine was.)

Dave

I started with a Charge HR, then Charge 2, and have had a Charge 3 since Christmas 2019. I think that the Charge 3 (and maybe one other model of the same generation?) are the oldest that do the sleep stuff.

Like I said, I've been very surprised at how well it works.

What I'm not happy with at all is that I can't get my data, and also the user interface is a total catastrophe. Since my Charge 3 is getting a bit long in the tooth, I might jump out of the fitbit universe when I replace it.
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#47
RE: OSCAR confusing me with leaks/apneas
Another interesting night...

I decided to see if a weighted blanket would help, eh... can't really tell. My camera's microphone for whatever reason did not activate last night so it was impossible to hear for breathing issues before/during movement.

Per usual most of these events are happening in the evening with some exceptions elsewhere. I always have these weird unflagged events that start right before movement, maybe the limb movement is due to a respiratory issue after all?

Still feel crappy, honestly running out of ideas on what to do. Should I just give up and accept that I will always be tired?  Sad 
Oh what I'd give to feel normal, I don't even know what it feels like.

I had a lot of event clusters at 10 and 12 as you can see, and no, I checked, none of those were Sleep/Wake/Junk surprisingly except for the last flag on the chart.

Most issues arising on the back, but when I attempt to prevent myself from rolling onto my back I seemingly just find somewhere else to obstruct my airway. Looks like I'm usually just sliding off the pillow as I fidget around all night. I mean, I guess I could try medication but if the movements are coming in response to respiratory issues, it wouldn't do anything.

Here's a Fitbit and OSCAR Flow comparison while I am at it.
[Image: a3cec7cc79396c3eb323710a48864ef2.png]


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#48
RE: OSCAR confusing me with leaks/apneas
(05-05-2021, 02:10 PM)godletmesleep Wrote: Most issues arising on the back, but when I attempt to prevent myself from rolling onto my back I seemingly just find somewhere else to obstruct my airway. Looks like I'm usually just sliding off the pillow as I fidget around all night. I mean, I guess I could try medication but if the movements are coming in response to respiratory issues, it wouldn't do anything.
I've lost track -- are you wearing the cervical collar? That's all about flexing the neck, though, and sleeping on your back can cause other problems of course. (When the medicos figured out that they were killing covid patients by keeping them on their backs it was a big deal. Gravity matters!)
You see what I mean about the fitbit? That long calm region lines up pretty much perfectly with the 4:38:30-4:42:00 deep sleep that the Fitbit saw. And then the jump in flow rate lines right up with the arousal. Can you zoom in on that region? What are the flow limits doing? Is there anything that you can see that would have caused you to wake up?
(A technical tip -- I assume that you are using some sort of draw program to mark up your screen shots -- If you draw a tall skinny rectangle, you can line up the edge of the rectangle against the hash mark for a time on the x-axis of one screen shot, and then move/resize the other screenshot so that its time hash lines up. Line up an hour at each end of the timelines, then delete the rectangles. Oh, and I also drag the fitbit top/bottom down/up to squish the image. It's completely readable, and takes up less space.)
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#49
RE: OSCAR confusing me with leaks/apneas
I'm so impressed.
I have an old Garmin watch that gives me HR and sleep reports. It's a vivoactive HR.

Your fit bits give excellent readings.

cathyf your explanation makes it look easy!


I would like to record blood oxygen levels too.
DaveL
Compliant for over 30 years

I'm just a cpap user like you. I don't give medical advice. I hope to learn from you, and share my experiences with you. 
Seek the advice of a physician before seeking treatment for medical conditions including sleep apnea. Sleep-well

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#50
RE: OSCAR confusing me with leaks/apneas
(05-05-2021, 03:54 PM)cathyf Wrote: I've lost track -- are you wearing the cervical collar? That's all about flexing the neck, though, and sleeping on your back can cause other problems of course. (When the medicos figured out that they were killing covid patients by keeping them on their backs it was a big deal. Gravity matters!)
Yes I am wearing the collar, looks like most of the obstructions are happening from when I roll on my back though (especially what happened at 12:40)... I don't believe these other random arousals are necessarily positional related... More on that below.

Quote:cathyf
You see what I mean about the fitbit? That long calm region lines up pretty much perfectly with the 4:38:30-4:42:00 deep sleep that the Fitbit saw. And then the jump in flow rate lines right up with the arousal. Can you zoom in on that region? What are the flow limits doing? Is there anything that you can see that would have caused you to wake up?
Sure, here it is
[Image: a205ad5e79152b3c9402b657a12cb4b9.png]
None flagged for whatever reason.

The video doesn't show anything prior to the events, all movement started (4:38:40) after the flow chart started deviating into an apnea.

Quote:cathyf
(A technical tip -- I assume that you are using some sort of draw program to mark up your screen shots -- If you draw a tall skinny rectangle, you can line up the edge of the rectangle against the hash mark for a time on the x-axis of one screen shot, and then move/resize the other screenshot so that its time hash lines up. Line up an hour at each end of the timelines, then delete the rectangles. Oh, and I also drag the fitbit top/bottom down/up to squish the image. It's completely readable, and takes up less space.)
I'm using the quick edit feature on the Gyazo screenshotting tool, I would've attempted to line things up better but unfortunately it doesn't let you resize at a direct 90 degree angle, just diagonally so I just tried to use arrows to point to things.
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