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[CPAP] Oscar, data formats, DS2, Airsense refurbished
#1
Oscar, data formats, DS2, Airsense refurbished
Hello, relatively new to the CPAP world and totally new to this (awesome) forum. Hopefully I am not breaking any rules asking these questions.

I have a DS2. My sleep care center "sold" me a DS1 (that allows them to get my sleep data remotely) and then Philips sent me a DS2 after I registered for the recall. Sleep center says that I am good to go, as they can still monitor my data remotely.

Having said this, I am really intrigued by the Oscar world and the possibility to collect and look at my own sleep data autonomously. Alas, I understand that Oscar is not compatible with either DS1 or DS2 (yet?). So here are my questions for you guys.

  • I understand that the Philips data exists but is not accessible. Is it because of encryption? or is this about a proprietary data format that Oscar developers still haven't been able to crack?
  • Does Philips data contain the same information as the data produced by other oscar-compatible CPAP machines?
  • Someone advised that I get an Airsense 10 instead, as that machine is fully compatible with Oscar, but I am a bit at a loss, as the current setup is a complete package that "harmonizes" my sleep center, my health history, my insurance picking up a good chunk of the bills, not voiding any warranty, etc.
  • a new Airsense is (order of) $1000. I see that someone is selling them refurbished online for about half the price. Would buying a refurbished CPAP machine be a bad idea... This would only be to try a few days look at my sleep data, get a better understanding of the issue that doesn't require me to go through a sleep doctor each time (They'll have 15 minutes for me and just give me a response in the end about what they think is right)
Thank you in advance for any insights that you may be able to share.

Fillmore
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#2
RE: Oscar, data formats, DS2, Airsense refurbished
(10-17-2021, 08:19 AM)fillmore50 Wrote: Alas, I understand that Oscar is not compatible with either DS1 or DS2 (yet?). So here are my questions for you guys.

OSCAR supports the DS1. But DS1 machines are recalled because of problems with the foam disintegrating and toxic fumes. You can remove the foam, but I don't know whether there are other effects from having had the foam in the machine for some time.
  • I understand that the Philips data exists but is not accessible. Is it because of encryption? or is this about a proprietary data format that Oscar developers still haven't been able to crack?
The issue is that the data on the card is encrypted. We are still working on that issue. All CPAP manufacturers use their own data format and we have been successful at figuring that out for most machines. Current indications are that the data format for the DS2 is not that different from the DS1, which OSCAR supports. It is just that the the card is encrypted.

  • Does Philips data contain the same information as the data produced by other oscar-compatible CPAP machines?
Roughly, yes. The data available varies from one manufacturer to another, and from one model to another. Both Philips and ResMed provide very complete data. All the machines OSCAR supports provide enough data for OSCAR, or they would not be listed as "supported." You do not want a "partially supported" machine as they generally lack some key data.
  • Someone advised that I get an Airsense 10 instead, as that machine is fully compatible with Oscar, but I am a bit at a loss, as the current setup is a complete package that "harmonizes" my sleep center, my health history, my insurance picking up a good chunk of the bills, not voiding any warranty, etc.
Most sleep centers support more than one brand of CPAP machine. Most insurance plans support multiple brands. I suggest asking your DME if you can swap your DS2 for another machine.
  • a new Airsense is (order of) $1000. I see that someone is selling them refurbished online for about half the price. Would buying a refurbished CPAP machine be a bad idea... This would only be to try a few days look at my sleep data, get a better understanding of the issue that doesn't require me to go through a sleep doctor each time (They'll have 15 minutes for me and just give me a response in the end about what they think is right)
CPAP prices have increased greatly because of the shortage of machines caused by the Philips recall. It probably doesn't help that DeVilbiss has decided to stop selling their machines as of December. Here on AB, we think that self-management is the best approach for people who are willing to look at their own data. The "integrated" systems that sleep centers have just don't have as much information as is on the data card (the machines do not send all of their data to their centers).

Many of us have become independent and don't see their "sleep doctor." In my case, I have never seen a sleep specialist of any kind (my family doctor prescribed the machine and I check in with him annually and give him my OSCAR statistics report to keep Medicare happy but not for therapy changes).

Different brand machines may need to be "tuned in" differently for you because their internal algorithms differ. Many of us here on AB prefer ResMed treatment although there are some that prefer Philips' algorithm.

Supplier #2 sells used machines and we have seen many good reports from people who have bought from them. One of my machines was a used machine when I bought it. 
Useful links
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Apnea Board Monitors are members who help oversee the smooth functioning of the Board. They are also members of the Advisory Committee which helps shape Apnea Board's rules & policies. Membership in the Advisory Members group does not imply medical expertise or qualification for advising Sleep Apnea patients concerning their treatment.
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#3
RE: Oscar, data formats, DS2, Airsense refurbished
Hi fillmore50!  -  Welcome
The DS1 is fully compatible with OSCAR.  The DS2 has come out with its data encrypted, thus preventing any data analysis by OSCAR.  If you are having all expenses covered by your insurance, by all means stick with the Philips.  Also, some prefer the reaction of one brand as opposed to another.  For example, the Resmed brand uses different algorithms to analyze your breathing patterns and will respond to an obstruction or flow limitation with a faster response with a pressure increase to reduce them.  It really boils down to if your CPAP is addressing your sleep apnea adequately and comfortably.

Several manufacturers provide detailed sleep data, with each having their own method of classifying and reporting the different parameters.  As I write this, the one parameter that comes to mind between the Resmed and Philips is, Flow Limitation.  The Philips will report this as an event, whereas the Resmed provides a value between 0 and 1 in a data form that can, and is in OSCAR, be graphed.

At this point I would advise you read a lot of the posts here, ask questions, and get use to your new sleeping ensemble.

Sleep-well
Crimson Nape
Apnea Board Moderator
www.ApneaBoard.com
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Useful Links -or- When All Else Fails:
The Guide to Understanding OSCAR
OSCAR Chart Organization
Attaching Images and Files on Apnea Board
Apnea Helpful Tips

INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.
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#4
RE: Oscar, data formats, DS2, Airsense refurbished
Thanks a lot for your answer, Guy and Crimson.

Potentially dumb follow-up question here: since this is my machine and it is my personal data, don't I have the right to access the decryption software and obtain my key that allows me to decrypt my own data?

What do you think?
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#5
RE: Oscar, data formats, DS2, Airsense refurbished
You most certainly do have the right!   My understanding is the patient should have full access to their data.  This is based off of my understanding of the U.S. law.  I'm wondering if Philips is skirting this requirement because their corporate home (Koninklijke Philips N.V) is outside the U.S. They seem to be so large that they can thumb their noses at the world. (Naw, I'm not opinionated!!! - Big Grin)

Also, from the information I'm aware of, not only does Philips encrypt the data, but they also use a rolling encryption key to make decryption extremely difficult as well.
Crimson Nape
Apnea Board Moderator
www.ApneaBoard.com
___________________________________
Useful Links -or- When All Else Fails:
The Guide to Understanding OSCAR
OSCAR Chart Organization
Attaching Images and Files on Apnea Board
Apnea Helpful Tips

INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.
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#6
RE: Oscar, data formats, DS2, Airsense refurbished
I'm sure everyone here will agree that you should have that right. The trouble would be getting PR to see it that way, and getting them to agree seems like a long shot, and I suspect it would probably only happen if PR was required to provide the keys (or stop encrypting the data) by a court after what would likely be a long and drawn out legal proceeding.

-Neelix
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#7
RE: Oscar, data formats, DS2, Airsense refurbished
Phillips has said you can get that info from your doctor or DME, but not directly.
Request DAILY, that is send them a daily request (everyday) for ALL the detailed data stored on the machine. In the US it is IMHO, under HIPPA, your right to view your medical data.
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#8
RE: Oscar, data formats, DS2, Airsense refurbished
Thanks everyone again. You guys are precious.

Assuming I wanted to try my luck with Philips and ask them how I can access my DS2 data so I can look at it with Oscar, who should I turn to exactly? Web site? Email address? too-free number?

Thanks
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#9
RE: Oscar, data formats, DS2, Airsense refurbished
I think that you should file a formal complaint with the FDA that the FDA require Phillips to give patients the encryption key or the FDA will pull their approval for the machines. It's a government agency, and they are required to consider public comments.

(Personally, I would not go to sleep with a machine strapped to my body if I had no way to know the machine's behavior when I'm asleep. I have pretty severe trust issues when it comes to medical devices, and Phillips has proven that they are liars. I have to believe that they encrypt the data because they are hiding something about how the machine behaves. That's the problem with being a proven liar -- everyone has to act as if you are lying. Phillips clearly lied for months and probably years after they found out  that their machines are dangerous, and because there are tens of millions of people using their machines there is a pretty strong likelihood that of the patients who have died or will die from injuries caused by the machine, at least one or two of those people would not have died if they had stopped using the machine the day that PR first learned that the machines were dangerous.)
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#10
RE: Oscar, data formats, DS2, Airsense refurbished
Thank you, Kathy. Your comment is noted. Before I turn to the FDA, I should probably go to Philips and see my request denied. Then I can tell the FDA that Philips isn't letting me exercise my rights. Do you agree?

In that case, the question is, how do I contact the right office within Philips?
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