Hello Guest, Welcome to Apnea Board !
As a guest, you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use.
To post a message, you must create a free account using a valid email address.

or Create an Account


New Posts   Today's Posts

CPAP cleaning system
#91
I think it is a matter of perspective. I have seen a lot of posts from those new to CPAP that seem overly concerned about cleaning. I think that So Clean saw this and saw a marketing opportunity. If it makes people feel at ease and more inclined to stick with CPAP, what is the problem? It may be mostly a psychological effect, but sticking with the therapy is not.

Do you need a So Clean? No. But if using one results in better sleep, then use one.

Post Reply Post Reply
#92
(07-17-2016, 12:02 AM)chill Wrote: I think it is a matter of perspective. I have seen a lot of posts from those new to CPAP that seem overly concerned about cleaning. I think that So Clean saw this and saw a marketing opportunity. If it makes people feel at ease and more inclined to stick with CPAP, what is the problem?

They are preying on people's fears and collecting money from those people for no good reason. You may not see a problem with that, but I do. You are welcome to your opinion, but I will keep mine.
Ed Seedhouse
VA7SDH

Your brain is not the boss.

Post Reply Post Reply
#93
Wow what a rough crowd Smile

I have a small collection of things I bought when I first started CPAP, including the famous P10 mask that was absolutely useless for me. I almost bought a distiller for water and looked at the so-clean.

Is there a use for the so-clean, yes for a few there is. Is it a waste of money for most, yes (IMHO).

The "scam" part could come into play in that they are saying it is the end all, be all for CPAP cleaning. But honestly that is just unethical marketing and is done all the time. Anyone here paid extra for a 3D TV and then found out there is little to no content available and again IMHO is just silly anyway?

I personally have lots of "stuff" around the house over the years that turned out to not be useful.

I have only heard of one person that had an immune problem and uses the so-clean because of that, could be more but I just don't know about them. Buyer beware and ask around this forum before you plunk down a bunch of cash.
Post Reply Post Reply


#94
Since we all agree they are Snake Oil salesmen, I guess the jokes on us.

SO Clean stands for Snake Oil
Post Reply Post Reply
#95
Unfortunately, I purchased the SoClean before reading this thread, so I already own it. I received it today and am considering returning it. However, reading this thread, I decided to do some research to see if I wanted to return it. Here's what I've found from basic online research on ozone and how it relates to our CPAP machines:

1. Ozone is proven to be an effective sanitizer in high concentrations
2. The reports everyone is pointing to are reports on ozone air purification, saying that the air in the ROOM would have to be at dangerously high concentrations to be effective, which they are not
3. It makes sense that the ozone in the SoClean chamber can be high concentrations.
4. Ozone is toxic at high levels but breaks down quickly back to normal oxygen (which is why they have you keep the chamber closed for 2 hours after the treatment)
5. As a restaurant manager, I know that washing dishes have 2 stages: Physically cleaning the dishes (all the dirt, grime, food, etc), and then sanitizing to kill the germs
If you are not thorough at cleaning CPAP well every day, I can see how bacteria can grow, as they like dark moist environments. For this reason, I can see how using this machine daily can be effective at keeping the machine sanitary. I think I will keep the machine. I will report back and let you know how it goes, but I plan on using a wipe on the nasal pillows daily to keep oil and grime from building up on the outside (skin contact) area, and probably washing the rest of the equipment every week or two. I don't really believe this device is necessary, but more of a convenience, but I also don't believe at all that it's a scam for the reasons listed above. I hope this is helpful for those of you trying to make a decision!
Post Reply Post Reply
#96
What's the effective PPM for ozone to be an effective sanitizer? Half-assed googling suggests between 0.5-2.0 PPM in water, but I assume the machine also totes it's production of gaseous ozone? Or does it simply recirculate water between the humidifier tank and the SoClean?

From SoClean's website, it suggests the machine only delivers 10 ppm

[commercial link removed, instead, do a Google search for "concentration ozone inside soclean"]


Another alternative to using the SoClean would be mechanical filters for bacteria/viruses, as recommended by Philips when sharing/renting the machine outside a hospital setting.




-----
Moderator Action: Link Removed
To maintain our status as an educational organization, the only commercial links allowed in this forum are to CPAP-related manufacturer websites. This is stated in the Apnea Board Rules with details given in the Commercial Links Policy section.
-----
Post Reply Post Reply


#97
(10-19-2016, 10:11 PM)jconrod Wrote: If you are not thorough at cleaning CPAP well every day, I can see how bacteria can grow, as they like dark moist environments.

But there's no evidence that that can cause any harm, either. Many of us go a week or two without washing the hose. Some much longer.

I wash my mask cushion daily but that's to remove face oils that interfere with a good seal and has little to do with bacteria issues. I also rinse out the water chamber daily and let it dry to avoid mold and bacteria growth.

There's no evidence that ozone offers any advantages. And as long as you don't use it as a substitute for cleaning, there's no evidence that its use is harmful, either. It's your money. Spend it as you wish.


Sleepster
Apnea Board Moderator
www.ApneaBoard.com


INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.
Post Reply Post Reply
#98
Although ozone might be harmful to the plastic parts. As Sleepster says ozone sanitizes but it does not *clean*. Some of us go a year or two without washing the hose.
Post Reply Post Reply
#99
What you are invoking is the scientific method. I agree completely with advocating its methodology as doing so increases the odds that the conclusions one forms are accurate, and confirmed so.  Of course that doesn't mean that unscientific conclusions aren't accurate, but scientifically derived ones are more reliably so.
Post Reply Post Reply


I don't know the backgrounds of many of those who have participated in this thread and others on SoClean but it's clear to me that there is a lot of misunderstanding with respect to risk of infection from CPAP equipment and sanitizing agents. I am a microbiologist and worked for almost 30 years in sterile pharmaceutical manufacturing. One of my responsibilities was evaluating, developing, and verifying the of efficacy of sanitizing and sterilizing agents for production equipment, water systems, and environmental surfaces. (sanitizer and disinfectant are equivalent terms.)  I also worked for many years in hospitals as a medical microbiologist. Although I'm far from expert with respect to many topics I think I know my way around this one pretty well.

Ozone is an effective sanitizing agent but only on surfaces that are already thoroughly cleaned. As has been stated repeatedly, however, it is not a cleaner.  Any mild detergent is.

With reasonable cleaning with mild detergent there should be no risk of infection from CPAP equipment. The small numbers of bacteria that remain after cleaning with a mild detergent are probably lower than in the room air you breath or on the dishes in your cupboard. In my opinion, a disinfectant should not generally be necessary but if you feel the need to use one there are much cheaper alternatives than SoClean. For any disinfectant to be effective, however, a surface must be clean.

Yes, there are bacteria that grow in the moist conditions of the reservoir, hose, and mask, but they are only harmful to severely immune compromised individuals and then only in larger numbers than the CPAP  user will be exposed to.  Truly pathogenic bacteria require more nutrients than are available on equipment that is kept reasonably clean. Also they are not spontaneously generated. They must already be present in the environment in which the equipment is located.

Someone mentioned scientific method. I have seen statements that SoClean has scientific studies to verify that their system works. I could find only two “scientific” studies referenced on the SoClean web site and reviewed both.
  • One had nothing to do with cleaning or disinfection. Neither ozone nor SoClean were used or mentioned in the study.
  • The second (probably commissioned by SoClean) was a very simple study performed in a German lab that showed SoClean will kill bacteria under ideal lab conditions. It was poorly documented and did not reflect real world conditions. It was not from peer reviewed journal and given the level of documentation I can't imagine it would have been accepted by one.
I am perfectly comfortable with washing my equipment with Dawn and warm water. It’s a lot cheaper than SoClean.

Post Reply Post Reply


Possibly Related Threads...
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  [Admin Note] WANTED: CLINICIAN SETUP MANUAL for 60-series PR System One REMstar Plus w/ C-Flex SuperSleeper 0 31 2 hours ago
Last Post: SuperSleeper
  Pilot-24 CPAP Battery System from Medistrom sonicboom 16 6,280 08-05-2017, 09:25 PM
Last Post: OMyMyOHellYes
  tear down of Philips Respironics PR System One AUTO 750P mraroid 8 308 07-30-2017, 08:06 PM
Last Post: mraroid
  [Equipment] PR System One AUTO 750P going into service mode (no access to set up) mraroid 33 781 07-24-2017, 02:25 PM
Last Post: Sleeprider
  [CPAP] cleaning an old Respironics REMStarPlus with mildew in it cstrouss 4 215 07-15-2017, 06:43 PM
Last Post: cstrouss
  One week in but have cleaning questions. Waldorbigbill 26 939 07-09-2017, 07:08 PM
Last Post: personal111
  [CPAP] FlashAir III w/ PR System 1 A-Flex markn62 11 453 07-09-2017, 06:55 PM
Last Post: markn62

Forum Jump:

New Posts   Today's Posts




About Apnea Board

Apnea Board is an educational web site designed to empower Sleep Apnea patients.

For any more information, please use our contact form.