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CPAP cleaning system
#31
I don't understand. The CPAP is a ONE WAY airflow device. Air doesn't go back down the tube and get in the works. It pumps the same air, with the same germs, you would normally breathe without the machine.

Anyway, you breathe air in all day and night long that somebody else has already breathed. Into their lungs and back out. Train, airplane, crowded auditorium, elevator. <<<GROSSNESS WARNING - look away now if you're easily offended>>> Catch a whif of an unpleasant odor in a public bathroom? You just sniffed up molecules of poo that very recently came out of the lower end of someone's alimentary canal (butt).

Unless somebody has a seriously compromised immune system, breathing air is OK. The immune system is designed to handle everyday germs. Hell, I've even been known to drink from a PUBLIC FOUNTAIN.

OMyMyOHellYes
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#32
(06-22-2013, 09:34 PM)OMyMyOHellYes Wrote: I don't understand. The CPAP is a ONE WAY airflow device. Air doesn't go back down the tube and get in the works. It pumps the same air, with the same germs, you would normally breathe without the machine.

Anyway, you breathe air in all day and night long that somebody else has already breathed. Into their lungs and back out. Train, airplane, crowded auditorium, elevator. <<<GROSSNESS WARNING - look away now if you're easily offended>>> Catch a whif of an unpleasant odor in a public bathroom? You just sniffed up molecules of poo that very recently came out of the lower end of someone's alimentary canal (butt).

Unless somebody has a seriously compromised immune system, breathing air is OK. The immune system is designed to handle everyday germs. Hell, I've even been known to drink from a PUBLIC FOUNTAIN.

OMyMyOHellYes

Actually, when you exhale, air goes back up the hose at least part of the way. My exhalation rate is up to 100, the intentional leak rate is around 30. Some air has to go up the mask. When I use a transparent hose on a cold night, I can see condensation in the hose as I exhale.

It probably doesn't go back up the hose that far, though.

Some dust and germs will get through the filter. Plus whatever gaseous material is in the air. Add this to the humid air. Let it accumulate on the hose in a damp environment. There's some risk of germ growth, especially if you let it accumulate over time without good cleaning.

I doubt it's really much of a concern unless you are really bad at cleaning. I use unheated hoses and just bought 4 hoses for $20 total through eBay. No reason not to replace the hose every so often.

I have multiple hoses, masks, and water tanks. I switch parts and clean weekly and let the cleaned parts sit and dry for a week before using. I dry the hoses on an old brick CPAP machine before storing.
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#33
A foot or so of the hose, maybe. That gets washed and eventually replaced.

Blower, not likely. Everything moist and warm is downwind of the blower. Keep the filter clean.
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#34
I'm new the the board but I have been using a cpap for 4 years. Being a lazy sort of guy, I would always plan to wash my stuff once a week. The problem was that it always boiled down to "I'll wash it next week". So in the long run, I would wash it about every 6 months or so. I would top up my humidifier every night with distilled water, so I don't think I was introducing any bugs. So far, I don't think I got sick from it; but it always nagged me a little bit that I might be constantly reinfecting myself, but hey, I'll wash it next week.

Anyway, I came across the soclean system and it looked like a perfect fit with my cpap lifestyle; so I bought one. So far it has worked ok, I think. I mean, I haven't gotten sick. Bottom line, if you are a good cpap user and wash your stuff like you are supposed to, the soclean might not provide any added benefit. If you are a somewhat less than perfect cpap user, such as myself, the soclean probably does provide some benefit, at least I'll tell myself that.
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#35
(07-10-2013, 09:52 AM)bgehret Wrote: Anyway, I came across the soclean system and it looked like a perfect fit with my cpap lifestyle; so I bought one. So far it has worked ok, I think. I mean, I haven't gotten sick. Bottom line, if you are a good cpap user and wash your stuff like you are supposed to, the soclean might not provide any added benefit. If you are a somewhat less than perfect cpap user, such as myself, the soclean probably does provide some benefit, at least I'll tell myself that.

The problem with this is that there's no way for you to tell it's working.

When you didn't use it, you had no obvious indication of problems. Now, you're using the cleaner, and there's still no obvious indication of problems. You'd like to believe you didn't wast your money, so you tend to convince yourself it's working.

Also, if you're going to the trouble to use the ozone generator regularly, you are paying more attention to cleaning, and may be doing your soap and water cleaning more often.
Get the free SleepyHead software here.
Useful links.
Click here for information on the main alternative to CPAP.
If it's midnight and a DME tells you it's dark outside, go and check it yourself.
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#36
The same argument can be made for soap and water cleaning. I did't get sick without it, I didn't get sick just after doing it. Therefore I have no way of knowing if it's a helpful thing to do.
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#37
There are many people who report going long stretches of time without cleaning and have no problems.

I don't like the odor, that's the reason I clean. Of course, if I have a cold or flu I know that regular cleaning can help prevent the virus from mutating and causing a relapse of symptoms.
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#38
(08-07-2012, 10:04 PM)archangle Wrote:
(08-07-2012, 04:05 PM)Tommy C Wrote: He did provide this link showing a study that is positive about using the ozone cleaning process:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16023258

WTF you talking about? It says " A total of 122 CPAP devices were examined including 50 CPAP devices used by patients, which were examined before and after reprocessing. Seventy-two new CPAP devices that had not been in contact with patients served as controls. The results of this study show that the microbial contamination of new and used CPAP devices is only minimal."

i.e. no special cleaning was needed for CPAP machines. I presume they're talking about the blower unit, not the hoses and mask.

(08-07-2012, 04:05 PM)Tommy C Wrote: O2 treatment (actually O3) seems SO much easier than tearing down and washing each time.

For $100, I'll sell you a rock. You can wave it over the CPAP equipment every night and say "GERMS BEGONE!!!!" It's so much easier than tearing down and washing or and it's cheaper than an Ozone generator.

I don't understand what's so difficult about cleaning CPAP gear. I do it virtually every day using soap and water. I do my gear and my mates. Takes less than 5 minutes. If you do it every day it becomes a habit. There seem to be a lot of people who always have to look for an easy out (in all endeavors).

"Sometimes the magic works . . . and sometimes it doesn't" -- Chief Dan George in the movie Little Big Man
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#39
There's no sense fighting over it. If it helps someone sleep, then by all means they should use ozone.

One thing we can all agree on is that the manufacturers of the CPAP equipment do not list it in the cleaning guidelines. They (at least ResMed) recommend only water and mild detergent.

In fact ResMed's clinician manual for the S9 doesn't even call for disinfection whether by Control III solution, vinegar solution, or otherwise. They only say that vinegar & water can be used to remove white deposits from the water tub.
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#40
(08-07-2012, 04:24 PM)Sleepster Wrote:
(08-07-2012, 04:05 PM)Tommy C Wrote: But why is there hesitation to use it by some, including ResMed?

Because it doesn't really do anything! So, let's say you thoroughly clean a machine and disinfect it. Use it once, or just leave it alone in a bedroom, and it'll pick up a bunch of bacteria. What are you gonna do, clean it continuously? Wake up in the middle of the night and clean it?

Washing with soap and water cleans away the crud and disinfects it. Anything more is overkill.

I own a SoClean unit and it sure does do something. For starters, it removes all odors save an "after the rain" kind of smell that is left in the mask. It's straightforward to tell if it has operated on any given day. Simply take a whiff.

Have I looked at or taken swabs from my masks and attempted to culture them? No. So my information is secondhand, and I cannot absolutely say, based on my own investigation, that it works to kill any and all pathogens that could cause me harm.

I don't know if it's being suggested that SoClean's laboratory results shown on their website are either fraudulent or misleading, but it is certain from many sources that ozone can kill some bad things. That's why we use it in municipal water treatment, for example.

One study ("Bacterial Effects of High Airborne Ozone Concentrations on Escherichia Coli and Staphylococcus Aureus", Ozone Science & Engineering, Vol. 20 pp. 205-221, International Ozone Association - published around 1997) makes clear that for concentrations in the 300 ppm range, for as little as 15 seconds, that survival rates for the pathogens tested was low. Extended contact times made things very very low.

So it's not hard to imagine how concentrations in the 140 ppm range for several hours of "soak" might do something.

I'm not arguing here that soap, water, chemicals, etc, properly done, won't keep your CPAP equipment safe. But each persons situation is a bit different, and each has a different risk profile. In addition, each person has a different immune system that may be more or less healthy. What is true, however, is that each of us must live with the consequences of our own decisions in this regard.

Also, just because a given cleaning method doesn't remove all bacteria for all time, doesn't mean that your risks from infection or disease aren't being lowered. It's just not possible to remove all pathogens allways, but this doesn't obviate the need for cleaning things to keep safe.

It must also be remembered that many (most) soaps do not kill bacteria. Most of the cleaning in hand washing, for example, is done by washing and rubbing. In hospitals, it's vigorous handwashing for 90 seconds or more. Remember, what may work for you and your immune system may be problematic for someone else's.

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