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CPAP cleaning system
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martinsr00 Offline

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Post: #61
RE: CPAP cleaning system
(07-25-2013 03:49 AM)archangle Wrote:  
(07-23-2013 10:49 AM)Paptillian Wrote:  There's no sense fighting over it. If it helps someone sleep, then by all means they should use ozone.

If people promote something here and it doesn't actually work, some innocent person may use it and neglect proper cleaning with the associated health risks.

The risk of lost cash is important, too, even if not as important as the risk of improper cleaning.

Does product XYZ work? I don't know. Show me an independent, peer reviewed study. Or manufacturers recommendations.

My thing with this, is that on the forum, it's kind of tacitly assumed that ozonation is bunk and the purveyors of equipment are thieves based on what -- very superficial knowledge of any of the science.

I admit, my knowledge is little more than superficial, being merely an engineer of some years with a knowledge of the basics of water quality, but there is in the scientific literature proof that ozone kills E. Coli, cryptosporidium, enteric virus and other pathogens in fairly short order.

SoClean on their website describes a lab study that shows clearly that the device kills off pathogens. Is it short of peer reviewed? Clkearly. So the standard of proof for my willingness to buy is lower.

So what's the standard of proof on the other side? "Soap and Wter is good enough" for me, so you're wasting your money if you buy one." Is this short of peer review? Clearly. By a country mile.

I for one, look to this forum as a source for ideas. SoClean is one good idea. Thymol is an idea (maybe more time to evaluate is needed). Hose dryers are a good idea.

Nevertheless all this, I bought a So Clean. Every night my mask smells fresh. Before, it didn't. I had a deep cough that's dissipated. Maybe it would have done so anyway. Maybe not. In the morning, my mask goes immediately into the box dry (30 seconds time), I close the box and in the evening my mask and humidifier thank smells fresh and the mask is still dry. Every week or so, I soak the mask and hose to eliminate any residues that could be a breeding ground for pathogens.

Peer review may be a good standard for live-or-die cancer meds. Especially if you want to seek out the journal article and review its methodology first hand. But it may be an excessive standard for items of lower risk. But each of us should evaluate their needs and required standards of proof for themselves.
07-26-2013 02:02 PM
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jgjones1972 Offline

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Post: #62
RE: CPAP cleaning system
I would definitely recommend extraordinary disinfection measures (akin to something like the SoClean) to anyone who has a habit of using fetid water for humidification, smearing animal feces in the mask/tube or sharing the machine/mask with someone infected with Ebola...heck, might as well take the whole set-up to the state agricultural extension office and have it irradiated - now that's effective decontamination.

As for me (since I'm not worried about catching something from myself), mold and other such little nasties that can be wiped out by ordinary washing and drying are my only concern.

I can buy a whole roll of paper towels for $1.29 (good ones); tear one off, twist it up, place it in the end of the tube, apply pneumatic force (blow into it) and repeat a couple times; then, finish off the drying by hooking the hose up and turning the machine on then off and leave the hose connected while the machine blows dry air through it for about 20 minutes on cool-down. This pretty much makes a hose dryer obsolete as well.

I think it would be very unfortunate for new PAPers to come to this forum and take away a belief that expensive, gimmicky peripheral equipment is necessary or even desirable for safe PAP use.

That's just my two cents.

Sleep-well
07-26-2013 05:47 PM
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oak Offline

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Post: #63
RE: CPAP cleaning system
I totally agree.Coffee
07-26-2013 06:16 PM
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RonWessels Offline

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Post: #64
RE: CPAP cleaning system
Hose dryers? Really??

Personally, after soaking my hose in cleaning solution, I rinse it thoroughly, hang it up for an hour or so, use the PaulaO2 hose drying method (spin it around overhead) to remove any remaining water drops, re-attach it to my machine, and turn the blower on for a half hour to completely dry it off. It's always worked for me.
07-26-2013 09:11 PM
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SuperSleeper Offline

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Post: #65
RE: CPAP cleaning system
You all would probably run screaming into the night if you knew how often I cleaned my mask & hose.

Haven't dropped over dead yet. Not only do I think the ozone cleaners are too expensive, I think soap and water are too. BigwinkEat-popcorn

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INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.

07-26-2013 09:28 PM
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JJJ Offline

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Post: #66
RE: CPAP cleaning system
(07-26-2013 09:28 PM)SuperSleeper Wrote:  ... Not only do I think the ozone cleaners are too expensive, I think soap and water are too.

+1

Actually I don't care much about the expense. It's just so much bother. Ditto for housecleaning. So who eats off the floor, anyway?

But I hasten to add that I'm single and I live alone. If you're in a household with multiple people then you need to worry more about bugs moving from one person to another.
07-26-2013 09:48 PM
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phadreus Offline

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Post: #67
RE: CPAP cleaning system
I am new to this, and have started using my CPAP (Resmed Autoset). I have been using a top of the line (made in Japan) Daikin photo catalytic multistage air purifier in my room to get rid of the dust mites, allergens, bacteria etc, for nearly 10 months. After 4 weeks of using my CPAP, I have noticed no odor or residue of any kind. I leave my air purifier on all night and after careful inspection of my CPAP machine, hose, mask etc; they are absolutely clean. I have used mild antibacterial detergent to clean them, but perhaps I do not need to do it often being that my air purifier is destroying the bacteria in the room. So, some of you may want to investigate a top line air purifier (I recommend Daikin; excellent reviews about it). After all, the cleaner the air, the better it is for you. I know it works for me.
07-27-2013 04:45 AM
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archangle Offline
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Post: #68
RE: CPAP cleaning system
(07-26-2013 02:02 PM)martinsr00 Wrote:  So what's the standard of proof on the other side? "Soap and Wter is good enough" for me, so you're wasting your money if you buy one." Is this short of peer review? Clearly. By a country mile.

You're completely misunderstanding the concept of burden of proof. The burden of proof is on the person pushing a product, not on the skeptics. This is true for ALL cleaning methods, not any particular method.

The skeptics are not usually publishing claims made by someone marketing a commercial product.

The skeptics are usually not claiming what they do is proven, just stating what they use.

You're making a straw man argument. The fact that Billy Bob cleans his mask by rinsing it with momma's used pickle juice isn't relevant to whether or not your favored cleaning method is good.

Personal testimonials are useful information.

Unfortunately, people tend to believe in what they bought. The ADE 651 bomb detector had lots of testimonials and honestly happy users. I think there are some people still happily using them.

There are plenty of 100% honest products that had lots of happy buyers that turned out later to not be effective.

There are plenty of people who believe in magic and faith healers. They have lots of happy users and testimonials.

Of course, good testimonials and happy users don't mean a product is bad. It just doesn't constitute proof. That's why we have peer reviewed studies.

Check out the James Randi Educational Foundation at randi.org for more information on why you can't trust user testimonials. It's really interesting reading.

Once again, that doesn't mean any particular cleaning method is bad. It just shows that happy consumers doesn't mean the product works.

However, you do have one good point. I'll tell you how I clean my equipment and whether I'm happy or not. You have to make your own decisions about how you want to clean.

After 9 years of doing it my way, I may drop dead some night from some obscure germ that was spread by my cleaning method. That doesn't mean someone else's method is right.

Get the free SleepyHead software here.
Useful links.
Click here for information on the main alternative to CPAP.
If it's midnight and a DME tells you it's dark outside, go and check it yourself.
07-27-2013 06:00 AM
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PaulaO2 Offline
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Post: #69
RE: CPAP cleaning system
Okay, putting on Moderator hat.

This is a reminder to remain civil.

Keep the discussion to the topic. Disagree all you want with an opinion or points made. Just don't put down the person who gave the opinion or made the points.

"Your opinion is stupid" is fine. So is "your view is screwy".

"You're stupid for having that opinion" is not. Neither is "you were dropped on your head as a baby".

If the discussion starts leaning too far in that direction, the thread will be closed.

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Breathe deeply and count to zen.

INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.
07-27-2013 10:20 AM
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Sleepster Offline
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Post: #70
RE: CPAP cleaning system
(07-26-2013 02:02 PM)martinsr00 Wrote:  Nevertheless all this, I bought a So Clean. Every night my mask smells fresh. Before, it didn't.

But did you wash with soap and water before as often as you use the So Clean now?

That's the kind of information that I would find valuable in making my decision to buy one.

There's no doubt that ozone is beneficial, but the important factor for me is whether or not it's worth the cost. How effective it is at cleaning is the key factor for me in making that decision. Other relevant factors are the cost and the convenience of use.

For example if using the So Clean is more convenient than soap and water, then it may be that it's worth the cost of the product. However, if I have to clean with soap and water in addition to using the So Clean, then it may become less convenient. But if it's more effective at cleaning, or just at removing odors, then it may be worth the purchase price. If it were easy to use, and if daily use removed the odor, then it might be worth the purchase price.

On the other hand if it's not more effective, and it's less convenient to use it because I still have to clean with soap and water, then I wouldn't use it even if were free.

I'm skeptical, not opposed. There is a difference. A huge difference.

I'm vigilant because I'm aware of the real power of marketing strategies. They are a proven method for increasing the sales of a product.

Sleepster
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INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.
07-27-2013 10:40 AM
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