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CPAP modems and remote changes to your settings without your knowledge
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retired_guy Offline

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Post: #21
RE: CPAP modems and remote changes to your settings without your knowledge
(07-25-2014 04:57 PM)SuperSleeper Wrote:  Money talks, and ultimately, we as patients are the ones who pump money into the medical system. .............

We already have the power... we just haven't used it as a group effectively in the past. Apnea Board was created in order provide a place where patient-empowerment could be enhanced and encouraged. If we can't help educate patients here to take control of their own sleep apnea treatment, then I'm afraid we're going to lose ground against the medical mafia.

Coffee

I don't necessarily subscribe to the "last days" scenario. Precisely because "Money talks."

What we've seen over the last few years are bigger and better, new and improved machines, masks and capabilities.

The reason is the mfg's know that if they want to stay ahead of the competition, they have to continually come up with new features that make their machines more attractive to the docs, the dme's, and to the public. Especially to the public because if they can demonstrate to the public that they should nag their doc for the new S15 model because it automatically makes your morning coffee, then that helps them acheive competitive edge.

It's kind of like the latest and greatest med advertised on tv that we are supposed to ask our doctor about. I did that just last week. He told me the technical data accompanying the drug stated that this new one is "not inferior" to the old one. Meaning of course nothing new except the advertising.

So in the long run it is about making points with the consumer.

I very much do agree with the idea that we should be all about "patient empowerment" around here. What does that mean exactly? Sometimes we go too far (I know I do) in advising people to do things themselves. But very often the pendulum seems to swing to the opposite direction where we counsel people not to touch that dial, call your doc immediately, call your dme, call your mother, but for goodness sakes do not change anything yourself.

Somewhere there's a happy medium and I think we should always try to wade in those waters. Wading is something we Oregonian's are actually quite good at.
(This post was last modified: 07-25-2014 06:53 PM by retired_guy.)
07-25-2014 06:51 PM
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Galactus Online

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Post: #22
RE: CPAP modems and remote changes to your settings without your knowledge
(07-25-2014 04:57 PM)SuperSleeper Wrote:  [quote='Galactus' pid='77455' dateline='1406321678']

So, a modem-enhanced system embedded into a CPAP will sell better, (make more profits) than one that is not, as long as customers (DMEs) view it as better for maximizing profit.

It's the same reason why unscrupulous DMEs will distribute a dumb brick (non-data-capable CPAP) to a patient over a fully data-capable CPAP. They make more money by distributing a brick, but that is clearly not the best solution for patients.

Coffee

I agree, but look at what you said above, and think of the great sales pitch; The manufacturer just says, "Hey we make these machines dumb, and only programmable with our programmer. Now that they are dumb they cost less, and so you save per unit, yah you have to pay that $10k up front but the savings over the course will still be in the $100's of thousands." And if only money guides them then surely the brick with no user controls or lcd displays would be cheapest for all and maximize their dollars.

Btw, I got a brick, and despite arguing over it, there was nothing I could do. I am still pissed about it.

But everyone has to realize that if this is solely a money issue then expandable machines with all the controls and the modem add ons do in fact cost more and are less profitable.

Otherwise I agree we all should be using some healthy paranoia, but maybe not everything has to be a conspiracy in total.

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07-25-2014 10:14 PM
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archangle Offline
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Post: #23
RE: CPAP modems and remote changes to your settings without your knowledge
FWIW, I found this brochure about the Philips modems. Sort of short on facts, but it says it downloads "weekly waveform data."

http://www.medical.philips.com/pwc_hc/ro...ochure.pdf

Yes, I know we were mostly discussing ResMed, but there's some info here.

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07-26-2014 01:42 AM
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SuperSleeper Offline

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Post: #24
RE: CPAP modems and remote changes to your settings without your knowledge
(07-25-2014 10:14 PM)Galactus Wrote:  Otherwise I agree we all should be using some healthy paranoia, but maybe not everything has to be a conspiracy in total.

I always hesitate to use the term "conspiracy" because everyone goes off the deep end thinks I'm referring to tin-foil hat, "aliens will abduct us all" type paranoid freak stuff. Bigwink

Conspiracies have nothing to do with paranoia.

The word conspiracy has gotten a bad wrap on the Internet. All it means is that two or more people conspire (agree to) do something secretly (or out-of-public-view) that may be harmful to a third party. It's a perfectly good word, and I think it applies to a lot of what's going on in the "medical mafia", in spite of people automatically thinking you're a nutcase if you claim that conspiracies exist (which they obviously do).

The conversation often goes like this, where "Joe" may be drawing attention to a real conspiracy that actually exists, but he is stereotyped and marginalized by "Sam" as a nutjob in the end for even using the term "conspiracy":

Joe: "I think there's a conspiracy going on here..."
Sam: "So, you're one of those people, huh?"
Joe: "What do you mean?
Sam: "You think everything is a conspiracy and "they" are out to get you, right?"
Joe: "Huh? When did I say that?"
Sam: "You didn't have to, I know what all you conspiracy theorists are like."
Joe: "No, I'm not like that..." Rolleyes
Sam: "Sure, whatever you say, Joe. I bet you think that the government is recording all your phone conversations, don't you?"
Joe: "What has the government recording phone conversations got to to do with this discussion?"
Sam: "Ah-ha! You do believe they are recording you all the time! See, you're paranoid!"

So, Sam has effectively derailed the conversation subject matter from the discussion of a potentially real conspiracy into a discussion about Joe's supposed whacked-out paranoid belief system. Happens all the time.

Coffee

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INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.

07-26-2014 08:01 AM
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archangle Offline
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Post: #25
RE: CPAP modems and remote changes to your settings without your knowledge
Good points SS. I've been meaning to start a "medical mafia" thread. Maybe a "conspiracy" thread is a good idea, too.

Or maybe a personal opinion Wiki page.

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07-26-2014 04:52 PM
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Post: #26
RE: CPAP modems and remote changes to your settings without your knowledge
(07-26-2014 08:01 AM)SuperSleeper Wrote:  
(07-25-2014 10:14 PM)Galactus Wrote:  Otherwise I agree we all should be using some healthy paranoia, but maybe not everything has to be a conspiracy in total.

I always hesitate to use the term "conspiracy" because everyone goes off the deep end thinks I'm referring to tin-foil hat, "aliens will abduct us all" type paranoid freak stuff. Bigwink

Conspiracies have nothing to do with paranoia.

The word conspiracy has gotten a bad wrap on the Internet. All it means is that two or more people conspire (agree to) do something secretly (or out-of-public-view) that may be harmful to a third party. It's a perfectly good word, and I think it applies to a lot of what's going on in the "medical mafia", in spite of people automatically thinking you're a nutcase if you claim that conspiracies exist (which they obviously do).

The conversation often goes like this, where "Joe" may be drawing attention to a real conspiracy that actually exists, but he is stereotyped and marginalized by "Sam" as a nutjob in the end for even using the term "conspiracy":

Joe: "I think there's a conspiracy going on here..."
Sam: "So, you're one of those people, huh?"
Joe: "What do you mean?
Sam: "You think everything is a conspiracy and "they" are out to get you, right?"
Joe: "Huh? When did I say that?"
Sam: "You didn't have to, I know what all you conspiracy theorists are like."
Joe: "No, I'm not like that..." Rolleyes
Sam: "Sure, whatever you say, Joe. I bet you think that the government is recording all your phone conversations, don't you?"
Joe: "What has the government recording phone conversations got to to do with this discussion?"
Sam: "Ah-ha! You do believe they are recording you all the time! See, you're paranoid!"

So, Sam has effectively derailed the conversation subject matter from the discussion of a potentially real conspiracy into a discussion about Joe's supposed whacked-out paranoid belief system. Happens all the time.

Coffee

DielaughingDielaughingDielaughingDielaughing
I have to say it has been a long day today and really this is the best link I have clicked in my email. I was drinking a Coke which burned when it went up my nose and I had to wipe it quickly off my desk and keyboard. That was a great post. I didn't mean to imply anyone was whack job, certifiable paranoid conspiracy theorist.

I do agree they are conspiring, though I am not always sure which "they" they might be. And I do have a healthy sense of paranoia. I also think if there are aliens they should stop landing in remote places and abducting people who have no credibility. But that's a post for a different board Big Grin

I just wanted to bring out that sometimes we jump to conclusions that aren't accurate based on information that may not be 100% correct and we have forgotten how to allow for "the benefit of the doubt". I was attempting to point out that there might be some reasonable explanations for things that happen, and that at times the "goals" people see as being there would be easier to achieve in a simpler manner than going through all the trouble they prescribe to the situation.

Just as a simple for instance, we ship a bunch of fragile items. There are times when someone will get a damaged item where the outer box looks perfect and the item inside is busted. Some people will immediately jump to "No way this got broken in shipping, you must have shipped it broken". As if we would have nothing better to do than ship you a broken item, because (in their opinion) their is some grand conspiracy to cheat them. Instead of just leaving room for the benefit of the doubt that it broke during shipping. That's all I was saying.

In any case SS great post, I loved it. BTW you are a good Joe to my Sam I am. And remember, I would not eat them on a plane, I would not eat them on a train, not with a PAP, not with an APAP, I would not eat them Sam I am. Cool

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07-26-2014 07:03 PM
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magdalene74 Offline

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Post: #27
RE: CPAP modems and remote changes to your settings without your knowledge
folks... we are already there. The cheap china made crappap that medicaid foisted upon me has no sd card, just a modem and a code i have to send in every 60 days...inform me if im wrong, its a RESmart cpap.
07-27-2014 07:56 AM
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Kate Offline

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Post: #28
RE: CPAP modems and remote changes to your settings without your knowledge
My machine is a Resmed S9 model number 36006A VPAP AUTO. How do I know if there is a modem attached to my machine? I have an SD card in my machine and I didn't go through a DME to get it. Although I do go through the DME for supplies.

But someone keeps cutting back on the amount of time that I'm hooked up and sleeping.

Kate

:Using cpap then vpap since Feb.2013,
Kate
08-11-2014 04:37 AM
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archangle Offline
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Post: #29
RE: CPAP modems and remote changes to your settings without your knowledge
(08-11-2014 04:37 AM)Kate Wrote:  My machine is a Resmed S9 model number 36006A VPAP AUTO. How do I know if there is a modem attached to my machine? I have an SD card in my machine and I didn't go through a DME to get it. Although I do go through the DME for supplies.

But someone keeps cutting back on the amount of time that I'm hooked up and sleeping.

Kate

The modem would be a bump on the back of the machine with an antenna.

[Image: S9_with_Wireless_Modulesm.jpg]

Get the free SleepyHead software here.
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08-11-2014 04:47 AM
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Post: #30
RE: CPAP modems and remote changes to your settings without your knowledge
(07-25-2014 04:57 PM)SuperSleeper Wrote:  Money talks, and ultimately, we as patients are the ones who pump money into the medical system. This is where I think the CPAP manufacturers are making a huge mistake when they talk of their customers as being "DMEs and sleep doctors". Face it, if the majority of CPAP users would refuse to accept dumb bricks from DMEs or if we refuse to accept CPAPs with modems, then this will channel more of our economic power into the patient-empowerment movement.
Prescription drug manufacturers began to market directly to patients once the FDA changed the rules. And that has (drastically) created markets for new, expensive drugs where older, generic drugs do exist and sometimes work just as well.

If we assume for just a minute that the manufacturers make more money from selling APAPs than bricks, then a direct marketing campaign (if legal) to patients might very well increase the number of APAPs sold relative to the number of bricks. (I once speculated on this idea on my blog ( Who do Resmed and PR think the customers are?)

Quote:We already have the power... we just haven't used it as a group effectively in the past. Apnea Board was created in order provide a place where patient-empowerment could be enhanced and encouraged. If we can't help educate patients here to take control of their own sleep apnea treatment, then I'm afraid we're going to lose ground against the medical mafia.
I think the work we do here is high quality work.

But the problem is: Only a very small fraction of newly diagnosed OSA patients ever discover a site like this, and even then, too many of them discover a site like this only after being sold a brick.

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08-11-2014 07:19 AM
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