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Can Sleep Deprivation Become Emergency?
#11
RE: Can Sleep Deprivation Become Emergency?
Try getting a foley catheter put in at the time of the sleep study.
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#12
RE: Can Sleep Deprivation Become Emergency?
I did actually fall asleep while standing. I was loading my baby into the car, and suddenly fell asleep and immediately snapped back awake.

If things are as bad as you're saying, I'd recommend ordering the Airset 10 on Amazon, and stay at home for the 48 hours it'll take to arrive at your home.
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#13
RE: Can Sleep Deprivation Become Emergency?
hi ronlecroy,
WELCOME! too The forum!
Good luckk with getting a sleep study set up.
trish6hundred
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#14
RE: Can Sleep Deprivation Become Emergency?
(04-24-2018, 05:39 PM)trish6hundred Wrote: hi ronlecroy,
WELCOME! too The forum!
Good luckk with getting a sleep study set up.

Thank you for the reply trish6hundred.  Making some progress with the docs, but it's very slow progress.  I can't get in to see my ENT again until May 1, urologist May 17.  Everybody is apparently busy and I don't have any alternatives.  I'm going to lay out my case emphatically and insist on a study regardless of my overactive bladder condition.  I'm also getting a referral to a neurologist who specializes in autonomic disorders.  Last time I saw my ENT he did suggest the neurologist because he thought it was odd that I acquired apnea and overactive bladder (I have it in the daytime also) at the same time.  My situation is very strange, because it seems to be my vocal cords that are closing and not soft tissue or palate obstruction.  For now I've got my old (old) CPAP set up so it helps me get some sleep.  There's a lot of waking up and going to the bathroom and strange grunts/hums from my vocal cords that wakes me up.  It's a little scary to be honest, like something is going wrong with my autonomic system and my vocal cords aren't opening like they are supposed to.  I end up getting enough sleep to function fairly well during the day, but I absolutely dread going to bed at night as I never know how bad it's going to be and sometimes it's in and out of bed 20 times a night.  I'm in good physical shape, run, swim, weight train, and have a good BMI.  This is really messing up my life and I feel like a sickie.
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#15
RE: Can Sleep Deprivation Become Emergency?
(04-24-2018, 08:25 PM)ronlecroy Wrote: I end up getting enough sleep to function fairly well during the day, but I absolutely dread going to bed at night as I never know how bad it's going to be and sometimes it's in and out of bed 20 times a night.

As Gary said, when you have a sleep study done, have them catheterize you so you can stay in bed while you urinate.  At home, definitely use a small plastic urinal receptacle with a screw-on or snap-on cap, the kind of receptacle that's used in hospitals.  Even a bleach bottle (relabeled, of course ... heh).  It works.  Go for it; there's no reason not to use something like that routinely.  Do whatever you need to do to minimize the impacts and disruptions on yourself.  If you get up that many times per night, it doesn't make any sense to be continually going back and forth to the bathroom.

You mentioned your old CPAP machine.  What pressure is it set to, and how much does it help?  If it's not doing the job properly, why not, and have you experimented with the settings, increasing the pressure?  From what you said, I assume it's only a constant-pressure machine, not APAP.  If you can afford it, definitely get an APAP machine, and a new mask if necessary, from some online supplier that doesn't require a prescription.  This part is only a guess, but you might try Supplier #14 from the Supplier List here.  Or Amazon if there are PAP machines listed there still (or again); whatever works.  If you need to get a different type of mask to make it more bearable so you can do a full night of xPAP, then do that.

To me, your story is quite scary, just because it seems like PAP therapy should be helping you, and if it isn't, then are the machine & settings wrong for your situation, or what?  Is the actual problem something quite different, such that no PAP machine will treat it?  By all rights, you should be able to do some of this PAP stuff yourself, the auto-titration, if given the tools (machine and mask), but it's made more difficult by that stupid prescription requirement in the U.S., which is a pity.

About the vocal cords, does it help to change sleeping positions?  Lying on back, lying on stomach, lying on one side or the other?

In any case, let us know how it goes!  And again, if you can afford it, don't procrastinate further on buying an APAP machine online and starting to use it!  I just remembered that Amazon has listed, out in plain sight, at least two APAP models from the manufacturer Apex Medical, which is a lower-grade brand by the standards that folks here are accustomed to but is still a workable device.  The older one is called "XT Auto" and the newer one is "iCH Auto", of which there's a second generation, "iCH II Auto".  All of those are auto-titrating as long as the model specifically has the "Auto" suffix in the name.  The expense will obviously be well worth it, to say the least, if it saves your life or even merely saves you a trip to the emergency room. For long-term use with data reporting and graphing, the file format can't be read by Sleepyhead, which is a point against the Apex brand, but that's probably the least of your concerns.
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#16
RE: Can Sleep Deprivation Become Emergency?
Thank you fats for the detailed and thoughtful reply.  Good things are happening.  My ENT admitted that he was perplexed by the situation and is willingly referring me to a neurologist to evaluate for an unlikely but possible systemic issue.  Also going to see a well respected pulmonary group that also runs the university sleep center.  While waiting to see these docs I've been doing "Respiratory Muscle Training" (also referred to as RMT or IMT) based on various research documents.  Using the recommended device and protocols that yielded results for a variety of respiratory impairments ranging from injury to vocal cord paralysis.  After only 10 days of strictly adhering to the program I must say, my sleep, pulmonary function, and resting O2 saturation have noticeably improved.  The "humming" and grunting is diminishing.  I went for a run yesterday and after two miles I suddenly realized I was breathing much more freely and didn't feel sickly out of breath.  According to the research it takes 12 weeks or more to realize the full benefit of respiratory muscle training so I'm definitely sticking with it.  I'll post more details if improvements continue.
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#17
RE: Can Sleep Deprivation Become Emergency?
ron-  Need to stop lurking and respond to your plight.

I am not an authority in any way shape or form (as most here) and try to avoid the 'well I' responses if possible. 
Acknowledging, unfortunately, that is all I have to lean on and in this case "I feel your pain".   I should add: 

Anyone with BPH and nocturia to the point it chronically disrupts their sleep has my attention.  The symptoms you have expressed strongly resemble a familiar 6-month path.  AHI is down to 1.28 and up to over eight hours without waking to urinate. [compared to previous 59+ and 30 minute intervals].

The vocal cord issue strikes home as my wife has a 'parallelized' vocal cord the ENT either overlooked last year or happened since.  She grunts mostly after exertion and unconsciously.  Something I have never even heard of before and still do not understand all the ramifications.

[After ruling out serious health issues of course] Words of advice to consider from an uneducated observer;
1) Be very careful you are not working up to a major coronary event
2) Get a PAP machine that records if yours doesn't and download SleepyHead
3) Get a c-collar of the slightly more rigid foam type (You can train yourself to get used to it)
4) Post here and hope Sleeprider will make suggestions  -Sleep Doc's calculations are not always the answer
5) Persevere- unfortunately it will probably take a bit for a long-abused body to adjust and respond.

Good Luck and Hang in there Okay ?
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#18
RE: Can Sleep Deprivation Become Emergency?
(04-30-2018, 12:02 PM)zzzZorro Wrote: Thanks Thank you.  You are right about the coronary concerns.  I also worry about that.  Fortunately EKG, BP, SpO2 etc look good and my athletic endurance is good for a guy my age.  I monitor a lot of my vitals daily or more just to be sure things aren't heading in the wrong direction.  I'm sure the new sleep docs are going to get me into a sleep study soon and that may help reveal any possible risks.  lol So you are familiar with the hassle of frequent urination.  For me it's not just at night, but frequently during the day too.  The urologist has ruled out cancer and all prostate issues, which is good.  The bad news is that he doesn't know why this is happening.  I will be visiting a neurologist soon to discuss the sleep issues and the overactive bladder.  They, as you may know, can have a common cause related to a neurological/autonomic dysfunction.  I'm hoping for a simple, non-neurological explanation, but will know more in the coming weeks.  The Respiratory Muscle Training I am doing at home has definitely reduced the grunting and humming that I had been experiencing.  It has been shown to increase vocal cord (fold) motion and definitely increases diaphragm muscle strength.  Studies have shown improvement ranging from 50 percent to over 100 percent inspiratory performance in certain patients.  Now, during the day, after a slow morning, I'm doing pretty good.  Thanks for your comments and suggestions.  I am so glad to have this group.  I'll update my progress as things change.

Here is a link to couple of several respiratory muscle training studies, one including vocal paralysis: 

Elderly (me - lol) sleep improvement with training:  https://www.omicsonline.org/open-access/...?aid=57335

Vocal paralysis inspiratory improvement:  https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14513961



ron-  Need to stop lurking and respond to your plight.

I am not an authority in any way shape or form (as most here) and try to avoid the 'well I' responses if possible. 
Acknowledging, unfortunately, that is all I have to lean on and in this case "I feel your pain".   I should add: 

Anyone with BPH and nocturia to the point it chronically disrupts their sleep has my attention.  The symptoms you have expressed strongly resemble a familiar 6-month path.  AHI is down to 1.28 and up to over eight hours without waking to urinate. [compared to previous 59+ and 30 minute intervals].

The vocal cord issue strikes home as my wife has a 'parallelized' vocal cord the ENT either overlooked last year or happened since.  She grunts mostly after exertion and unconsciously.  Something I have never even heard of before and still do not understand all the ramifications.

[After ruling out serious health issues of course] Words of advice to consider from an uneducated observer;
1) Be very careful you are not working up to a major coronary event
2) Get a PAP machine that records if yours doesn't and download SleepyHead
3) Get a c-collar of the slightly more rigid foam type (You can train yourself to get used to it)
4) Post here and hope Sleeprider will make suggestions  -Sleep Doc's calculations are not always the answer
5) Persevere- unfortunately it will probably take a bit for a long-abused body to adjust and respond.

Good Luck and Hang in there Okay ?
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#19
Thumbsup 
RE: Can Sleep Deprivation Become Emergency?
I have spoken also from the position of an 'old guy', not overweight and heretofore athletic.  The LAD arterial incident apparently was not aware it was the wrong guy Unsure

THANKS for the Vocal paralysis links, she will very much appreciate the information.

Good luck and persevere, there will be good sleep at the end of the tunnel.
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#20
RE: Can Sleep Deprivation Become Emergency?
Ron,
I remember an English dude who claimed he was so sleep and dream deprived that he would dream during eye blinks. And he was serious. I can't imagine being in such a stressed state and I hope you get help soon.

If you have a comfortable chair...perhaps you can sleep sitting up. It's got to be better then what's happening now. Good luck to you...
JD
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