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Can SleepyHead Be Trusted?
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Lambsydoats Offline

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Machine: ResMed AirSense 10 AutoSet for Her
Mask Type: Nasal pillows
Mask Make & Model: ResMed AirFit ™ P10 Nasal Pillow
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CPAP Pressure: 8
CPAP Software: SleepyHead

Other Comments: Initially: AHI=52; 2nd: AHI=18; CPAP 11-10-14; as of 8-18-15: AHI consistently under 5.0

Sex: Female
Location: Southwest Michigan, USA

Post: #31
RE: Can SleepyHead Be Trusted?
(11-24-2014 12:19 AM)Galactus Wrote:  Ahhhhhh finally he's gonna stop with the few centrals and quit nagging us, we can all breathe freely now Dielaughing

Btw, just joking lamb, I always keep asking till I get an answer that makes me happy and so should you.

Also, keep in mind that just because the machine scores an event doesn't always mean it scored the correct event or even an event, it's a machine yes but it does make mistakes, at least that is what they tell me.

It's so funny to have machines that can be expected to be that inaccurate. I mean, if you can't be sure the data is true, what's the point in paying any attention to the data? Ah, just rambling.

BTW, Galactus, "Lambsydoats" is a she.... Nonosign


Lambsydoats

To all, to each, a fair good-night,
And pleasing dreams, and slumbers light.
Scott—Marmion. L’Envoy. To the Reader.

Diagnosed with OSA September 2014
AHI=18
Lowest SpO2: 79%
11-26-2014 11:05 PM
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Sleepster Offline
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CPAP Software: ResScan SleepyHead

Other Comments: Diagnosed Nov 2011. Conquered aerophagia.

Sex: Male
Location: Houston, Texas

Post: #32
RE: Can SleepyHead Be Trusted?
(11-26-2014 11:05 PM)Lambsydoats Wrote:  It's so funny to have machines that can be expected to be that inaccurate. I mean, if you can't be sure the data is true, what's the point in paying any attention to the data? Ah, just rambling.

Many people stumble over that philosophical point. The fact is, there is no such thing as data that's not inaccurate. And there's no such thing as a data set that's complete. It was famously stated that to be sure of something you'd need an infinite amount of perfect data, but instead what we always have is a finite amount of imperfect data.

So, why pay attention to imperfect data? Because it works! That is, it gets results even though they come at a price. For example, in the practice of medicine it gets us an improved quality of life.

Sleepster
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INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.
11-27-2014 12:25 AM
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Coroboree Offline

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Machine: Respironics System One
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Mask Make & Model: Puritan Bennet Breeze Sleepgear
Humidifier: Resp System One Heated
CPAP Pressure: 5cm
CPAP Software: SleepyHead

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Sex: Male
Location: California

Post: #33
RE: Can SleepyHead Be Trusted?
(11-19-2014 08:38 PM)Lambsydoats Wrote:  Today the PA said he "doesn't put any stock in" any software not produced by the CPAP manufacturer (ResMed in my case).

Isn't the data on the SD card the data on the SD card? How could one application (SleepyHead) report the results erroneously and the other (ResScan) report them accurately when the data being imported is from the same ... everything (i.e., CPAP machine, SD card)?

I've been using SH (for all 9 days that I've had my CPAP) and just downloaded ResScan. I REALLY like the SH interface, reporting, etc. But hey--if it isn't accurate, I'll get used to ResScan.

Lamb
I have some problems with SH, and don't seem to be able to get any answers on this forum. Briefly these include:1. the keyboard controls listed in SH User guide do not perform the listed functions on my Mac (OS X Yosemite) that the guide specifies, eg my F12 is the audio level function. 2. I have some flags at top edge of Flow Rate Graph unlabeled by SH. 3. The duration times on daily graphs is less than Usage "column display" indicates. (I would like to adjust Daily graph time spans to match, as I am currently not seeing some recorded data displayed.) 4. The Daily "By Pressure" graphs are nonsensical, not real, fake, etc. 5. SH does not display data units, or data accuracy, although Philips/Respironics provides the information.

While I appreciate brevity, much of these strings seem to consist of the exchange of coded cracks between veteran members - also that the SH version I am using is "in development".
11-27-2014 02:31 AM
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Coroboree Offline

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Posts: 50
Joined: Mar 2013

Machine: Respironics System One
Mask Type: Nasal pillows
Mask Make & Model: Puritan Bennet Breeze Sleepgear
Humidifier: Resp System One Heated
CPAP Pressure: 5cm
CPAP Software: SleepyHead

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Sex: Male
Location: California

Post: #34
RE: Can SleepyHead Be Trusted?
(11-27-2014 12:25 AM)Sleepster Wrote:  
(11-26-2014 11:05 PM)Lambsydoats Wrote:  It's so funny to have machines that can be expected to be that inaccurate. I mean, if you can't be sure the data is true, what's the point in paying any attention to the data? Ah, just rambling.

Many people stumble over that philosophical point. The fact is, there is no such thing as data that's not inaccurate. And there's no such thing as a data set that's complete. It was famously stated that to be sure of something you'd need an infinite amount of perfect data, but instead what we always have is a finite amount of imperfect data.

So, why pay attention to imperfect data? Because it works! That is, it gets results even though they come at a price. For example, in the practice of medicine it gets us an improved quality of life.

Why not include data units and accuracy on SH data display pages? Medical practitioners do not comply with data standards in use by Scientists, and Engineers.
11-27-2014 02:39 AM
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PaytonA Online
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Machine: ResMed S9 VPAP Auto
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CPAP Pressure: VAuto MinE14.0 MaxI 20.6 PS4.0
CPAP Software: ResScan SleepyHead

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Sex: Male
Location: Orange County,California

Post: #35
RE: Can SleepyHead Be Trusted?
(11-27-2014 02:31 AM)Coroboree Wrote:  I have some problems with SH, and don't seem to be able to get any answers on this forum. Briefly these include:1. the keyboard controls listed in SH User guide do not perform the listed functions on my Mac (OS X Yosemite) that the guide specifies, eg my F12 is the audio level function. 2. I have some flags at top edge of Flow Rate Graph unlabeled by SH. 3. The duration times on daily graphs is less than Usage "column display" indicates. (I would like to adjust Daily graph time spans to match, as I am currently not seeing some recorded data displayed.) 4. The Daily "By Pressure" graphs are nonsensical, not real, fake, etc. 5. SH does not display data units, or data accuracy, although Philips/Respironics provides the information.

While I appreciate brevity, much of these strings seem to consist of the exchange of coded cracks between veteran members - also that the SH version I am using is "in development".

1. I am working on a PC so have no info regarding this question.
2. I find no unlabeled flags in the flow rate data. The only things that I find without a label at the top of the graph are flow rate spikes but then maybe this is a difference from PC to Mac
3. I do not get any duration times on daily graphs but I have figured some from the X axis and they always agree with the listed times under the events tab on the left.
Units would be nice and I think they will be there in the finished version. Absolutes are not as important to our analyses as patterns are so units are of less import (this is my conception anyway).

I would like to see a grid on the graphs also so that one could more accurately assess what value a peak had for instance. I do not trust myself to eyeball it all that accurately - old eyeballs!

Best Regards,

PaytonA
11-27-2014 02:44 PM
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Coroboree Offline

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Machine: Respironics System One
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Mask Make & Model: Puritan Bennet Breeze Sleepgear
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CPAP Pressure: 5cm
CPAP Software: SleepyHead

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Sex: Male
Location: California

Post: #36
RE: Can SleepyHead Be Trusted?
(11-20-2014 05:48 AM)PaulaO2 Wrote:  I used SH and ResScan together for a while.

Ignoring the graphs, the numbers were the same. ResScan tended to follow what the machine said which could be confusing for me. I am a night owl with insomnia so my sleeping hours quite often crossed the noon threshold. So a single sleep session for me would be spread out over two days and not in one, making viewing the data difficult. At least I think that is what was happening. But SH is able to see it was an uninterrupted session and put it all into one, which I liked.

SH sometimes would mark events incorrectly but after a while, I could see what had happened. Not that it was saying an OA event was a CA event, but more like it was saying an event happened and it didn't. But it was the time stamp that was off. If I needed to zoom in on an event and it wasn't there, I could just scroll to one side or the other and find it. To me, that was no big deal. At least I understood what I was looking at. I never even got that far with ResScan. I never even figured out how to zoom in! (granted, I wasn't all that interested in learning how)

But inferior as in reporting incorrectly? No. It is using the same data. And other than being a few 0.x off between them, I never noticed a difference.
Well Paula, I sent you a few instances where the KB functions in your SH guide do not at all match the functions of my Mac with OS X Yosemite. But I have not found any response.

I would like to post a reply to the Board Member who posted "We analyze bad data because it works" which of course is nonsense. Data are not bad or good; but sometimes a set of data encodes information that we would like to extract; but I am unable to locate his post.

I am not concerned with the "accuracy" of the data, but think the SH presentation is weird - looks like a presentation of stock market price data, and seems to cut intervals of time from the the abscissa.
(This post was last modified: 11-27-2014 03:04 PM by Coroboree.)
11-27-2014 03:03 PM
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DeepBreathing Offline
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Machine: Resmed S9 VPAP Adapt
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CPAP Software: ResScan SleepyHead

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Location: Perth, Western Australia

Post: #37
RE: Can SleepyHead Be Trusted?
Coroboree, can you post some examples of your graphs so we can see the issue you're referring to?

As to the status of SleepyHead, it has been developed as FREEWARE by a fellow insomniac and a couple of volunteers. SH is so far ahead of the so-called professional programs (eg ResScan) that it's not funny. I'm sure JediMark would be pleased for constructive feedback, but I don't think any of us are in a position to complain if it doesn't always meet expectations.

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INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.
11-27-2014 06:54 PM
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PaytonA Online
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Machine: ResMed S9 VPAP Auto
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Mask Make & Model: Resmed Mirage Quattro
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CPAP Pressure: VAuto MinE14.0 MaxI 20.6 PS4.0
CPAP Software: ResScan SleepyHead

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Sex: Male
Location: Orange County,California

Post: #38
RE: Can SleepyHead Be Trusted?
(11-27-2014 03:03 PM)Coroboree Wrote:  I am not concerned with the "accuracy" of the data, but think the SH presentation is weird - looks like a presentation of stock market price data, and seems to cut intervals of time from the the abscissa.

Would you please provide us with an example of "intervals cut from the abscissa". I have only been using SH for a couple of months and I am using the PC version but I have never seen this happen.

Best Regards,

PaytonA
11-27-2014 10:48 PM
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SuperSleeper Offline

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Post: #39
RE: Can SleepyHead Be Trusted?
(11-27-2014 03:03 PM)Coroboree Wrote:  I would like to post a reply to the Board Member who posted "We analyze bad data because it works" which of course is nonsense.

Of course what you posted is inaccurate, as you misquoted Sleepster. He didn't say that "We analyze bad data because it works", rather he said:

Sleepster Wrote:The fact is, there is no such thing as data that's not inaccurate. And there's no such thing as a data set that's complete. It was famously stated that to be sure of something you'd need an infinite amount of perfect data, but instead what we always have is a finite amount of imperfect data.

So, why pay attention to imperfect data? Because it works! That is, it gets results even though they come at a price.

As you can see, he referred to "inaccurate" data, "imperfect" data and "finite" data, but none of these are necessarily "bad" data that is totally useless when used to make valid decisions regarding effective treatment. There is a rather large difference in your paraphrase and his actual statement.

Thinking-about

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INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.

11-27-2014 10:54 PM
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zonk Offline

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Post: #40
RE: Can SleepyHead Be Trusted?
This is way over my head but the title grab my attention: Can SleepyHead Be Trusted?

The machine write the data on the card and SH just like ResScan read it so the software is just the messenger
Don't blame the messenger for bad numbers
The advantages of SH, support numerous machines and works with windows and Mac computers
11-27-2014 11:59 PM
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