Can a CPAP inflate a balloon ???

[oldteddybear]

The difference is ... the balloon was inflated but not expanded. I wonder how well a heated line cpap on the highest heat setting would work on a silk balloon and how high it would go?

[jeff.wolf.rrt]

Hazards of PAP. (These WILL KILL YOU)
1. Aspiration. PAP will blow contents from your oropharynx into the trachea. This can be spit, mucus, or solids.
2. Increased intrathroacic pressure. Lung compliance is a dynamic factor. It can change very quickly resulting from many different factors. Increasing the pressure around the heart will decrease cardiac output.
3. Barotrauma. Popping the lung. If you get a pneumothorax you will be using way less lung tissue, again intrathoracic pressure changes from different volumes in the lungs also have an effect on cardiac funtion.

The amount of pressure required to overcome the empty balloon is not a function of the balloons compliance alone but also what is known as closing pressure or volumes. When you try to blow up a balloon it is extremely difficult, all at once it becomes much easier. Your alveoli (lung balloons) overcome this closing pressure limitation through end expiratory pressure. If you have had a PFT there is what is called RC or residual capacity. This is the portion of alveolar distension where not all of the air evacuates the alvealar space. FRC or functional residual capacity would be the amount of air you can force to evacuate (until NO MORE air will come out). Having this air in the alveoli, eliminates the need to overcome the closing pressure. Anyone who has had the "wind knocked out of them" understands the concept of closing volume/pressures. Regarding the interpretation of 20 CWP and not being enough pressure to cause problems, it is all relevant. 1 PSI of pressure added to a semi truck's tire may not cause the tire to explode but adding the same amount to one alveoli will certainly pop it. We must compare apples with apples to really see the correct relationship. PAP therapy has a very real possibility to cause your body harm, EXPECIALLY when combined with other health issues.

[SuperSleeper]

Hi Jeff,

If you want to compare "apples to apples", your example of a pressure of 1 PSI is a bit extreme, you must admit. 1 PSI of relative pressure change is equivalent to roughly 70 cmH20 of CPAP pressure. There is no CPAP or Bi-level CPAP on the planet that will go to such high pressure ranges. The highest pressures of most CPAPs are 20 cmH2O pressure increase and around 25 cmH2O for Bi-levels. Hardly anywhere near 1.0 psi.

Can you provide one documented case of someone dying as a direct result of CPAP therapy "gone awry"?

I'm not completely discounting what you've posted, but I have yet to read one clearly documented case of "death by CPAP" or even a case where CPAP was a major contributing factor to someone's death, or even one clearly documented case where CPAP pressures were a major contributing factor in causing a patient's condition to change from stable or fair to critical or serious condition.

[PaulaO2]

Actually, increased intrathroacic pressure is helpful to folks with congestive heart failure. And CPAP is being used in ambulances for some heart failure patients as a way to prevent the need for intubation.

And CPAP cannot inflate a lung. There's a difference between CPAP and ventilator.

[Galactus]

Wow... cool.... didn't think anyone would really try that experiment.

Nice job, Bill.

I had no doubt. :-p I wish this forum had "like" functions. That's awesome!

This could be slightly off the topic, and for that I apologize, but I just read this very old resurrected thread, and I would like to point out that even all the way back in the year 2012 people were asking for a like function. Yet still we have none. Think how many new cpapers have been issued machines, and still no like function for us.

And now without further ado I bring you back on topic with;

Peter Farrell, the Founder of ResMed, is notorious in the Sleep Medicine establishment for saying “The only way you can get injured by one of our machines, at least the low level ones, is if somebody picks the terrible thing up and slams you over the head with it.”

[SuperSleeper]

And now without further ado I bring you back on topic with;

Peter Farrell, the Founder of ResMed, is notorious in the Sleep Medicine establishment for saying “The only way you can get injured by one of our machines, at least the low level ones, is if somebody picks the terrible, terrible, terrible thing up and slams you over the head with it.”

The aforementioned official Apnea Board "Like Button" can be found here:

http://www.apneaboard.com/like.jpg

Feel free to insert it into any post you like.

... and to bring this back on topic... I'm still waiting for documented proof of "death by CPAP pressure".

[Shastzi]

Me too. I'm from Missouri. Show me the dead bodies killed by all these rogue CPAP machines!

[OMyMyOHellYes]

Thats fantastic! A pressure of 24cm, that means a balloon gives out more than most machines. You'd think that when you get your gale in your mask that the pressure is immense yet its nothing next to a "Balloon"

One more thing is this across the board or does it change depending on shape of balloon or size of balloon?

Yeah, but can you twist your CPAP up into a little doggie shape?

OMM

[cant_sleep_in_nj]

this test is totally bogus ! you never tested multiple balloons ? you are assuming one balloon is the same as the next. what about quality of balloons, wall gauge thickness of said balloon etc.... ?

we need much more data than has been given

[scroydon]