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Can you get to zero AHI?
#11
I got to 0.0 AHI for a nap over the weekend of about 1.8 hours :-)
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#12
(03-05-2013, 01:14 PM)PaulaO2 Wrote: An AHI of 5 or more is needed for the diagnosis. That means that an AHI of less than 5 means you do not have sleep apnea. It is that way for any other test, such as blood work. There's a normal range and then there's the above or below that range that is the diagnosis for whatever. Thyroid function needs to be between .82 and 1.77. Above or below this indicates a thyroid condition. Treatment for that condition should put the thyoxine level back to within that range. AHI is no different.

Basically, I disagree, but I think we are dealing with definitions. We probably agree as to the facts.

If by "diagnosis" you mean "sufficient that an insurance company will pay" or "sufficient that a prescription for therapy is indicated," then I agree - under 5.0 is not a "diagnosis" of sleep apnea. But I consider that anything other than zero events means that there are apneas or hypopneas going on, and that is sleep apnea. Perhaps not yet bad enough to bother doing anything about, but the body is nevertheless not getting perfect sleep and a small amount of damage is being caused as a result. In my definition, that is still "sleep apnea."
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#13
What do we mean by "normal"? If you need a AHI of zero to be normal, I doubt many people would qualify. All you have to do is reduce your breathing by a significant amount for 10 seconds and your AHI is no longer zero!

A doctor once told me that you have to be willing to make a judgment call about the state of your own health. Sometimes you can have a bit of pain but to correct that problem a procedure is necessary. And after that procedure you could end up with pain that's slightly different, but maybe not so bad as before. Has the procedure made you normal?

He said a normal person is a person who can do these four things: eat, sleep, go to the bathroom, and have sex. At some point you just have say this is as good as it gets.

If you want to get into a statistical debate about it you'd have to measure the AHI of a significant sample of people who don't have sleep apnea. If you do that you won't come up with an average of zero. You could sort the population into those who have a zero AHI when tested and those who don't, and then classify the former group as "normal". I doubt you'd have very many "normal" people. Usually there's an implication that if you're normal you're within some range surrounding the average value.

I think the opinion of the medical profession is that if you have an AHI under 5 you don't need a CPAP machine to be normal. But if you do have an AHI above 5 you need a CPAP machine to be normal.

A normal person can sleep. Without CPAP therapy I'm not normal because I can't sleep. With CPAP therapy I'm normal because I can sleep. My AHI is not zero.

Sleepster
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#14
(03-05-2013, 03:07 PM)eplantz Wrote: Since then, my AHI has been 0.0 every night. All other numbers being reported seem reasonable and I guess this seemed reasonable. My AHI before with full-face mask was usually just less than 1 each night.

Gene

If you've been getting all 0s since December, chances are the machine is wonky. The S9s have a tendency to get stuck on zeros. Unplug the machine. Wait a few minutes, and plug it back in.
PaulaO2
Apnea Board Moderator
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INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.




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#15
(03-05-2013, 11:24 PM)JJJ Wrote: Basically, I disagree, but I think we are dealing with definitions. We probably agree as to the facts.

If by "diagnosis" you mean "sufficient that an insurance company will pay" or "sufficient that a prescription for therapy is indicated," then I agree - under 5.0 is not a "diagnosis" of sleep apnea. But I consider that anything other than zero events means that there are apneas or hypopneas going on, and that is sleep apnea. Perhaps not yet bad enough to bother doing anything about, but the body is nevertheless not getting perfect sleep and a small amount of damage is being caused as a result. In my definition, that is still "sleep apnea."

No, that's not how I see it. If I have headaches, do I get a migraine diagnosis? No, because I need a specific type of headache with specific symptoms and have them a specific number of times or more. Same thing with a lot of illnesses and diseases and conditions. There has to be a line and just because someone has a symptom does not mean they have the diagnosis. There's a difference between having an apnea event and having sleep apnea just as there's a difference between having a headache and having a migraine. Everyone has a blood pressure and everyone will have "high blood pressure" at some point during the day (heat, stress, body position, etc). But they don't have the diagnosis of hypertension. One is situational, the other is chronic.

Regardless, it is unnecessary to feel one is not getting "good" treatment if the AHI remains above zero. "Good" treatment is an AHI less than five and feeling well rested.
PaulaO2
Apnea Board Moderator
www.ApneaBoard.com


Breathe deeply and count to zen.

INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.




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#16
An AHI of 0 is sort of a dream, to be honest - if you have it, great, but be suspicious, since there is always arousal and variegated breathing even in the most healthy person. A person who requires a machine to help shouldn't consistently show an AHI of 0 - it they do they are either golden children or the machine is funny. An occasional 0 reading is fine, but night after night would simply be suspicious. Unplug the box, wait ten seconds or more for the buffer to clear, then plug it in again. Check all other parameters (leaks, etc) and if you keep getting 0, then talk to your doc, he's gonna want to hear that... You'll either get a gold star or a new machine....

Anyway, it doesn't matter - the norm for healthy people is less than 5 and a desat of not under 90% (89% actually) for more than a few minutes. If that is achieved, you are in line with 95% of the human race that is considered healthy in sleep. Consistent 0 AHI and sO2sat of 98% is sort of a freakish in non therapeutic settings.... maybe top athletes or something.....
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#17
cincysinner made a good point- it's the quality of sleep that's important. I would imagine most of you active youngsters sleep well at night. I realize terms like "normal" and "generally" don't belong in any discussion but they work to convey my meaning. I read about plenty of people on the forum who find quality sleep a precious and rare commodity. But perhaps that should really be our goal- a night with all stages of sleep and enough REM and deep stage sleep to heal our bodies.
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#18
Normal is just a setting on my clothes dryer.

Big Grin
"With ordinary talent and extraordinary perseverance, all things are attainable." - Thomas Foxwell Buxton

Cool
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#19
(03-06-2013, 04:06 PM)Shastzi Wrote: Normal is just a setting on my clothes dryer.

Big Grin

My religion, SubGenius [link removed] looks down on Normal people.
Offtopic

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#20
Almost got zero last night... Over 8 hours I only had 1 event, a central apena.... though I am not really sure it was a central apena (false positive)
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