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Carbon Dioxide vs Oxygen
#1
It looks like oxygen is key in feeling good, and functioning well.Cool

So I have to ask......... if I remember reading about human physiology correctly; it is Carbon Dioxide levels that trigger us to breathe.?

So except for Obstructive events, .......... it might seem that the central events, Apnea, etc perhaps caused by a number of reasons,

1. Brain is not sending the signal perhaps due to degration, damage due to trama, chemicals, old age or ?,
2. the signal not reaching the muscles that operate the lungs? ie the "wiring" that carries the signal........ or
3. that the "sending unit" that monitors the C02 level needs "to be fixed" Unsure

Is there any work or studies that have been done on the C02 aspect of Sleep Apnea?

Am I on track about the C02 triggering the breathing process?

I know this is a bit off topic, but it seems that the more we understand, the more likely we are to create and implement solutions.

Eric2/U2canbuild
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#2
Hi U2,

How the body handles O2 and CO2 balance is a field in itself.
It does affect all of us and how well we sleep so I dont think your post is off topic but
see if the moderators want to file it in a separate thread etc.

If I remember my old biology,
breathing is controlled by the more primitive parts of the brain that handle all the "automatic" stuff going in.
If damage occurs in these areas for any reason (or even heavy anthesthesia) you just flat forget to breathe. ie: The "time to breathe" signal never leaves the garage.

Folks that have had a stroke can sometimes run into this problem (neurological damage) and may need an artificial assist at night.

I think there are some study-reports out and about the net, that have observations on the subject.
You can probably find a lot by searching for "CO2 and sleep studies" for a ton of stuff.

Good luck! Smile



"With ordinary talent and extraordinary perseverance, all things are attainable." - Thomas Foxwell Buxton

Cool
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#3
I'm sure that lots of studies have been done on this topic. CPAP-induced central apnea is thought to be caused by the brain's reaction to the high oxygen content in the blood. Lots of studies have been done on that topic alone.
Sleepster
Apnea Board Moderator
www.ApneaBoard.com


INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.
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#4
Studies galore, my friend. So much so that we don't tend to think too much about it any more - although there is always at least one young doctor who needs their thesis to graduate doing something on it. If it wasn't for medical school a good three quarters of the arcane research that we have wouldn't ever be done. Why else do we get papers (later sometimes useful) of "Sore Hair" syndrome?(no, not me - the daughter of my GP did that one, and she's pretty good).

Breathing triggers are complex, and which CO2 is one trigger level, there are around a dozen, including sO2 sats, nerve reflex (which is the main one), well, the list goes on. I sort of wonder where you are going with this line of enquiry....
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#5
It is complicated. We are very complex machines with a lot of feedback and regulatory mechanisms.

Also, our designer didn't provide any documentation, so we're having to reverse engineer the design.

CO2 is probably a part of central apnea for many people. One theory is that when you breathe more deeply with CPAP, you sometimes "wash out" the CO2 from your blood and lose the urge to breathe even when your O2 levels drop. It takes a while for CO2 to build up again.

Central apnea is also not just one condition. It's like having a headache. There are many different causes in different patients.

Someone posted a study someone did where they changed the mask, hose and air vent to make the patient rebreathe more of the exhaled air to keep their CO2 levels a little higher to reduce centrals. Results were encouraging, but it's not something to experiment with at home yet. There have been some tests with feeding some CO2 into the air stream, too.
Get the free SleepyHead software here.
Useful links.
Click here for information on the main alternative to CPAP.
If it's midnight and a DME tells you it's dark outside, go and check it yourself.
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#6
(03-21-2013, 05:42 AM)DocWils Wrote: I sort of wonder where you are going with this line of inquiry....

Thanks for the great information and ideas! Thanks

Regarding "where I am going"


Some people just want "it" to work, and I understand that position.Cool

I am a curious person, former engineer and want / need to know how everything works.

I will continue to collect data, try to understand things, make changes until I resolve a problem. Big Grin

I have found that the "experts" ( DME,s and related Doctors) seem to fall short of both my expectiations and paticular needs.


Yes, I agree humans are complex machines and there are virtually tens of thousands, of combinations that result in our each specific Sleep Apnea need (s) / solutions.




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#7
(03-24-2013, 08:26 PM)u2canbuild Wrote: I have found that the "experts" (DME's and related doctors) seem to fall short of both my expectations and particular needs.

That statement could serve as our motto around here. Thanks
Sleepster
Apnea Board Moderator
www.ApneaBoard.com


INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.
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#8
Not sure how to take that....
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#9
(03-25-2013, 04:21 AM)DocWils Wrote: Not sure how to take that....

LOL! Not to worry. You've been seduced by the dark side and have become a disgrace to your profession simply because you have the guts to want to be helpful. Congratulations. I guess there are some good doctors out there.

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#10
A disturbance in the Force, I sense!

IMO, the price of a good night's sleep is constant vigilence...And while we're napping the robots watch over us and log everything.

=^.^=
"With ordinary talent and extraordinary perseverance, all things are attainable." - Thomas Foxwell Buxton

Cool
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