Post Reply 
Carbon Dioxide vs Oxygen
Author Message
u2canbuild Offline

Preferred Members

Posts: 47
Joined: Oct 2012

Machine: ResMed Air-Curve 10 ASV
Mask Type: Nasal pillows
Mask Make & Model: Sept 1 Nasal Pillows Swift FX
Humidifier: Res-Med
CPAP Pressure: 3-8
CPAP Software: SleepyHead Other Software

Other Comments: 4 months AHI = 0.2 !! Adding 1.5 to 2 Liter O2

Sex: Male
Location: Central Massachusetts, USA

Post: #1
Carbon Dioxide vs Oxygen
It looks like oxygen is key in feeling good, and functioning well.Cool

So I have to ask......... if I remember reading about human physiology correctly; it is Carbon Dioxide levels that trigger us to breathe.?

So except for Obstructive events, .......... it might seem that the central events, Apnea, etc perhaps caused by a number of reasons,

1. Brain is not sending the signal perhaps due to degration, damage due to trama, chemicals, old age or ?,
2. the signal not reaching the muscles that operate the lungs? ie the "wiring" that carries the signal........ or
3. that the "sending unit" that monitors the C02 level needs "to be fixed" Unsure

Is there any work or studies that have been done on the C02 aspect of Sleep Apnea?

Am I on track about the C02 triggering the breathing process?

I know this is a bit off topic, but it seems that the more we understand, the more likely we are to create and implement solutions.

Eric2/U2canbuild
03-20-2013 09:18 PM
Find all posts by this user Post Reply Quote this message in a reply

Donate to Apnea Board
Shastzi Offline

Advisory Members

Posts: 1,174
Joined: Dec 2012

Machine: ResMed S9 Autoset
Mask Type: Full face mask
Mask Make & Model: FitLife Total face mask
Humidifier: F&P HC150 with Hybernite heated hose.
CPAP Pressure: 15cm-20cm H2O (auto)
CPAP Software: SleepyHead Other Software

Other Comments: CMS50-F wearable Oximeter; Software: SPO2 Assistant

Sex: Undisclosed
Location: Florida, USA.

Post: #2
RE: Carbon Dioxide vs Oxygen
Hi U2,

How the body handles O2 and CO2 balance is a field in itself.
It does affect all of us and how well we sleep so I dont think your post is off topic but
see if the moderators want to file it in a separate thread etc.

If I remember my old biology,
breathing is controlled by the more primitive parts of the brain that handle all the "automatic" stuff going in.
If damage occurs in these areas for any reason (or even heavy anthesthesia) you just flat forget to breathe. ie: The "time to breathe" signal never leaves the garage.

Folks that have had a stroke can sometimes run into this problem (neurological damage) and may need an artificial assist at night.

I think there are some study-reports out and about the net, that have observations on the subject.
You can probably find a lot by searching for "CO2 and sleep studies" for a ton of stuff.

Good luck! Smile

"With ordinary talent and extraordinary perseverance, all things are attainable." - Thomas Foxwell Buxton

Cool
03-20-2013 09:40 PM
Find all posts by this user Post Reply Quote this message in a reply
Sleepster Offline
Wiki Editor
Moderators

Posts: 4,993
Joined: Feb 2012

Machine: ResMed AirCurve10 VAuto
Mask Type: Full face mask
Mask Make & Model: F&P Simplus
Humidifier: HumidAir and SlimLine Hose
CPAP Pressure: MaxI 13.6 | MinE 5.2 | PS 4.4
CPAP Software: ResScan SleepyHead

Other Comments: Diagnosed Nov 2011. Conquered aerophagia.

Sex: Male
Location: Houston, Texas

Post: #3
RE: Carbon Dioxide vs Oxygen
I'm sure that lots of studies have been done on this topic. CPAP-induced central apnea is thought to be caused by the brain's reaction to the high oxygen content in the blood. Lots of studies have been done on that topic alone.

Sleepster
Apnea Board Moderator
www.ApneaBoard.com


INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.
03-20-2013 10:53 PM
Find all posts by this user Post Reply Quote this message in a reply

Donate to Apnea Board
DocWils Offline

Members-b

Posts: 1,271
Joined: Jul 2012

Machine: Philips Remstar series 60
Mask Type: Nasal pillows
Mask Make & Model: ResMed P10
Humidifier: same as machine
CPAP Pressure: 5-15
CPAP Software: SleepyHead

Other Comments:

Sex: Male
Location: Switzerland

Post: #4
RE: Carbon Dioxide vs Oxygen
Studies galore, my friend. So much so that we don't tend to think too much about it any more - although there is always at least one young doctor who needs their thesis to graduate doing something on it. If it wasn't for medical school a good three quarters of the arcane research that we have wouldn't ever be done. Why else do we get papers (later sometimes useful) of "Sore Hair" syndrome?(no, not me - the daughter of my GP did that one, and she's pretty good).

Breathing triggers are complex, and which CO2 is one trigger level, there are around a dozen, including sO2 sats, nerve reflex (which is the main one), well, the list goes on. I sort of wonder where you are going with this line of enquiry....
03-21-2013 05:42 AM
Find all posts by this user Post Reply Quote this message in a reply
archangle Offline
Wiki Editor
Advisory Members

Posts: 3,159
Joined: Feb 2012

Machine: ResMed S9 AutoSet
Mask Type: Nasal pillows
Mask Make & Model: ResMed Swift FX
Humidifier: ResMed S9 H5i
CPAP Pressure: 16-20
CPAP Software: ResScan SleepyHead EncoreBasic

Other Comments: Happy PAPper

Sex: Undisclosed
Location: USA

Post: #5
RE: Carbon Dioxide vs Oxygen
It is complicated. We are very complex machines with a lot of feedback and regulatory mechanisms.

Also, our designer didn't provide any documentation, so we're having to reverse engineer the design.

CO2 is probably a part of central apnea for many people. One theory is that when you breathe more deeply with CPAP, you sometimes "wash out" the CO2 from your blood and lose the urge to breathe even when your O2 levels drop. It takes a while for CO2 to build up again.

Central apnea is also not just one condition. It's like having a headache. There are many different causes in different patients.

Someone posted a study someone did where they changed the mask, hose and air vent to make the patient rebreathe more of the exhaled air to keep their CO2 levels a little higher to reduce centrals. Results were encouraging, but it's not something to experiment with at home yet. There have been some tests with feeding some CO2 into the air stream, too.

Get the free SleepyHead software here.
Useful links.
Click here for information on the main alternative to CPAP.
If it's midnight and a DME tells you it's dark outside, go and check it yourself.
03-21-2013 04:52 PM
Find all posts by this user Post Reply Quote this message in a reply

Donate to Apnea Board
u2canbuild Offline

Preferred Members

Posts: 47
Joined: Oct 2012

Machine: ResMed Air-Curve 10 ASV
Mask Type: Nasal pillows
Mask Make & Model: Sept 1 Nasal Pillows Swift FX
Humidifier: Res-Med
CPAP Pressure: 3-8
CPAP Software: SleepyHead Other Software

Other Comments: 4 months AHI = 0.2 !! Adding 1.5 to 2 Liter O2

Sex: Male
Location: Central Massachusetts, USA

Post: #6
RE: Carbon Dioxide vs Oxygen
(03-21-2013 05:42 AM)DocWils Wrote:  I sort of wonder where you are going with this line of inquiry....

Thanks for the great information and ideas! Thanks

Regarding "where I am going"


Some people just want "it" to work, and I understand that position.Cool

I am a curious person, former engineer and want / need to know how everything works.

I will continue to collect data, try to understand things, make changes until I resolve a problem. Big Grin

I have found that the "experts" ( DME,s and related Doctors) seem to fall short of both my expectiations and paticular needs.


Yes, I agree humans are complex machines and there are virtually tens of thousands, of combinations that result in our each specific Sleep Apnea need (s) / solutions.
03-24-2013 08:26 PM
Find all posts by this user Post Reply Quote this message in a reply
Sleepster Offline
Wiki Editor
Moderators

Posts: 4,993
Joined: Feb 2012

Machine: ResMed AirCurve10 VAuto
Mask Type: Full face mask
Mask Make & Model: F&P Simplus
Humidifier: HumidAir and SlimLine Hose
CPAP Pressure: MaxI 13.6 | MinE 5.2 | PS 4.4
CPAP Software: ResScan SleepyHead

Other Comments: Diagnosed Nov 2011. Conquered aerophagia.

Sex: Male
Location: Houston, Texas

Post: #7
RE: Carbon Dioxide vs Oxygen
(03-24-2013 08:26 PM)u2canbuild Wrote:  I have found that the "experts" (DME's and related doctors) seem to fall short of both my expectations and particular needs.

That statement could serve as our motto around here. Thanks

Sleepster
Apnea Board Moderator
www.ApneaBoard.com


INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.
03-24-2013 09:46 PM
Find all posts by this user Post Reply Quote this message in a reply

Donate to Apnea Board
DocWils Offline

Members-b

Posts: 1,271
Joined: Jul 2012

Machine: Philips Remstar series 60
Mask Type: Nasal pillows
Mask Make & Model: ResMed P10
Humidifier: same as machine
CPAP Pressure: 5-15
CPAP Software: SleepyHead

Other Comments:

Sex: Male
Location: Switzerland

Post: #8
RE: Carbon Dioxide vs Oxygen
Not sure how to take that....
03-25-2013 04:21 AM
Find all posts by this user Post Reply Quote this message in a reply
Ugly Offline

Preferred Members

Posts: 568
Joined: Oct 2012

Machine: ResMed S9 AutoSet
Mask Type: Nasal mask
Mask Make & Model: ResMed Mirage Micro
Humidifier: ResMed H5i
CPAP Pressure: 7-14
CPAP Software: ResScan SleepyHead

Other Comments: Hydrocephalus, myopia, depression, chronic ugliness, stupidity, tinnitus, mixed sleep apnea.

Sex: Male
Location: Barrie Ontario Canada

Post: #9
RE: Carbon Dioxide vs Oxygen
(03-25-2013 04:21 AM)DocWils Wrote:  Not sure how to take that....

LOL! Not to worry. You've been seduced by the dark side and have become a disgrace to your profession simply because you have the guts to want to be helpful. Congratulations. I guess there are some good doctors out there.
03-25-2013 12:38 PM
Find all posts by this user Post Reply Quote this message in a reply

Donate to Apnea Board
Shastzi Offline

Advisory Members

Posts: 1,174
Joined: Dec 2012

Machine: ResMed S9 Autoset
Mask Type: Full face mask
Mask Make & Model: FitLife Total face mask
Humidifier: F&P HC150 with Hybernite heated hose.
CPAP Pressure: 15cm-20cm H2O (auto)
CPAP Software: SleepyHead Other Software

Other Comments: CMS50-F wearable Oximeter; Software: SPO2 Assistant

Sex: Undisclosed
Location: Florida, USA.

Post: #10
RE: Carbon Dioxide vs Oxygen
A disturbance in the Force, I sense!

IMO, the price of a good night's sleep is constant vigilence...And while we're napping the robots watch over us and log everything.

=^.^=

"With ordinary talent and extraordinary perseverance, all things are attainable." - Thomas Foxwell Buxton

Cool
03-25-2013 12:56 PM
Find all posts by this user Post Reply Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply 


Possibly Related Threads...
Thread: Author Replies: Views: Last Post
  new to cpap and oxygen worried 8 231 12-02-2016 05:53 PM
Last Post: kwhenrykerr
  Pulse Oxygen Sensor muddywaters 6 323 11-27-2016 07:23 PM
Last Post: kwhenrykerr
Rainbow [Diagnosis] They want me to use a CPAP with oxygen concentrator Apneaprincess 47 7,672 11-11-2016 05:18 PM
Last Post: David44142
  Oxygen adapter on CPAP hose PaulaO2 6 501 08-29-2016 12:00 AM
Last Post: PaulaO2
  CPAP with oxygen Concentrator tanwt 23 2,216 07-21-2016 04:31 AM
Last Post: kwhenrykerr
Question Low Oxygen, Low Red Blood cell count and Low T kwhenrykerr 0 280 07-21-2016 04:11 AM
Last Post: kwhenrykerr
  [CPAP] Oxygen sensing and recording shnorrer 21 5,613 04-23-2016 09:59 AM
Last Post: Sn00zeAlarm

Forum Jump:

Who's Online (Complete List)