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Changing Settings
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iTeachCpap Offline

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Post: #1
Changing Settings
As a CPAP therapist, I would like to clarify a previous post on here. It is not illegal if you change your pressure. We won't stop taking care of you. If you change your pressure and it's too low or too high and something happens to you, the company that cares for you can be sued. Also, if you bump it up too high, it can cause what sleep techs call, centrals. If it is too low, it won't do you any good. If you still want to change it, talk to your doctor so that the change is documented somewhere. Be smart about it. This machine is strictly for your benefit.
07-19-2012 01:11 PM
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cbramsey Offline

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Post: #2
RE: Changing Settings
(07-19-2012 01:11 PM)iTeachCpap Wrote:  As a CPAP therapist, I would like to clarify a previous post on here. It is not illegal if you change your pressure. We won't stop taking care of you. If you change your pressure and it's too low or too high and something happens to you, the company that cares for you can be sued. Also, if you bump it up too high, it can cause what sleep techs call, centrals. If it is too low, it won't do you any good. If you still want to change it, talk to your doctor so that the change is documented somewhere. Be smart about it. This machine is strictly for your benefit.

Welcome to the forum. It would make more sense if you had made this as a reply to the thread in question to keep things in context.

Sleep-well

INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.
07-19-2012 01:46 PM
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JudgeMental Offline

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Post: #3
RE: Changing Settings
I see that is your first post, so I "Welcome" you to the forum. I would like to express my appreciation for your comments reference to the legality of self induced pressure changes. I also like your closing remarks as to being smart about your CPAP usage and self benefit. Well said and not said enough.

Your comment...Quote>>>If you change your pressure and it's too low or too high and something happens to you, the company that cares for you can be sued.<<
I hope you will elaborate on your above comment. What "company" are you referring to? Physician or DME? You say that self changing of the pressure is not illegal, however you refer to the patients "company" as liable for suit if erroneous changes are made.

Your endeavors in the health field and contributions to this forum is again, much appreciated. Come often.

Yesterday is history; Tomorrow is a mystery; Today is a gift; Thats why its called "The Present".
07-19-2012 02:03 PM
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SuperSleeper Offline

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Post: #4
RE: Changing Settings
(07-19-2012 01:11 PM)iTeachCpap Wrote:  If you change your pressure and it's too low or too high and something happens to you, the company that cares for you can be sued.

Welcome to Apnea Board, iTeachCpap...

Don't want to sound rude, but I'd like to challenge your thinking on this:

Here's the thing: We get a lot of these assertions here on Apnea Board, but with nothing to back them up in the way of evidence or documentation.

Just to clarify, theoretically in the U.S. anyone can sue anyone else or any company for anything, anytime they wish. Suing someone does not mean that the party being sued is guilty of any wrongdoing. Nor does it mean that the suing party will win the lawsuit.

On a purely real-world basis, I'm not aware of any lawsuit anywhere in the U.S. where a patient actually sued a DME/HME after the patient changed their own pressure, and was actually harmed by that pressure change. (where the patient brought a lawsuit against their DME/HME for something that the patient themselves initiated). If you can find such a case, please post a verifiable link to it.

Quote:Also, if you bump it up too high, it can cause what sleep techs call, centrals.

Again, we get this assertion a lot also:
Many "sleep professionals" use this as evidence as to why a patient should never, ever change their own CPAP pressure.

Sure wish there was a single solid, documented scientific study to indicate that increased pressures cause true central sleep apnea events, (where a central event is defined roughly as a "neurological event where patients stop breathing because of a malfunction in the brain's signaling processes"). So far in the 8 year history of Apnea Board, not one member has been able to link to a verifiable, statistically significant scientific study that proves beyond a reasonable doubt that increasing a patient's pressure causes true central events.

There's a lot of personal opinions, official-sounding "articles" and anecdotal small-sampling "evidence" offered by various sleep professionals, but little else in the way of statistically significant studies. I think there were two studies where a handful of patients were involved in the studies - maybe 10-30 or so if I'm remembering correctly, which is not a large enough sampling to be statistically significant. And the primary goal of those studies was concerning a completely different subject, and the info concerning centrals was only secondary to the aims of the studies. And again, those studies didn't come to a solid conclusion that increasing pressures was the main culprit behind increased centrals amongst the participants... they admitted that there could have been other reasons for the central events, in addition to the increased pressures. Thinking-about

Again, if you have a link to such a study, please post it. (and I don't mean a link to a summary of someone's personal opinion or an article about the subject, or someone who quotes a supposed study that no one can find or verify... I mean a link to the study itself). I've had a couple people send me links to what they claim were actual studies, but end up being a summary of a supposed study - somewhere - by -someone- done -at some point- but no one can find any reference to the studies except to the article that is quoting one or two paragraphs of a "supposed study". Dont-know

Let me add that I'm not saying that central sleep apnea events don't exist, or that no one has CSA. I'm just saying that I haven't seen reasonably conclusive proof that increasing CPAP pressure causes CSA.

Yeah, I know you can probably tell me of instances during a titration where a particular patient had increased centrals when you increased their pressure. But again, that does not prove causality, especially when one considers that it's not in a controlled study group, (where variables are minimized), and not using a large, statistically-significant sampling group.

Also, so folks don't think we recommend that patients change their pressure "willy-nilly" without taking precautions, I'd advise all those who'd like to change their CPAP pressure to read our page on How to Find Optimum CPAP Pressure.

Coffee

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INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.

07-19-2012 02:36 PM
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PaulaO2 Offline
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Post: #5
RE: Changing Settings
Quote:Also, if you bump it up too high, it can cause what sleep techs call, centrals.

What a coincidink! So do xPAP users! Although we tend to call them central events or CA.

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INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.
07-19-2012 04:25 PM
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mjbearit Offline

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Post: #6
RE: Changing Settings
(07-19-2012 01:11 PM)iTeachCpap Wrote:  As a CPAP therapist, I would like to clarify a previous post on here. It is not illegal if you change your pressure. We won't stop taking care of you. If you change your pressure and it's too low or too high and something happens to you, the company that cares for you can be sued. Also, if you bump it up too high, it can cause what sleep techs call, centrals. If it is too low, it won't do you any good. If you still want to change it, talk to your doctor so that the change is documented somewhere. Be smart about it. This machine is strictly for your benefit.

Maybe I am being a tad sensitive here, but there really is no reason to talk down to us. Many of us do not get the care we need from our doctors and/or DMEs so rather than roll over and die like good patients, we take care of ourselves. Since we are still here I guess we are not absolute idiots after all. Yes, the sarcasm was in fact intentional.

As always, YMMV! You do not have to agree or disagree, I am not a professional so my mental meanderings are simply recollections of things from my own life.

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07-19-2012 05:16 PM
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big_dave Online

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Post: #7
RE: Changing Settings
I think OP is a troll. Otherwise we would have seen a response by now.
07-19-2012 05:29 PM
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zonk Offline

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Post: #8
RE: Changing Settings
(07-19-2012 05:29 PM)big_dave Wrote:  I think OP is a troll.
Don,t feed the troll Too-funny
07-19-2012 05:44 PM
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Sleepster Offline
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Post: #9
RE: Changing Settings
(07-19-2012 01:11 PM)iTeachCpap Wrote:  As a CPAP therapist, I would like to clarify a previous post on here. It is not illegal if you change your pressure. We won't stop taking care of you. If you change your pressure and it's too low or too high and something happens to you, the company that cares for you can be sued. Also, if you bump it up too high, it can cause what sleep techs call, centrals. If it is too low, it won't do you any good. If you still want to change it, talk to your doctor so that the change is documented somewhere. Be smart about it. This machine is strictly for your benefit.

That's certainly good advice. Anyone who is adjusting their pressure should understand what's being said here.

I would add, though, that anybody can sue anybody else for anything that they deem to be damaging.

The question is, what would it take for them to prevail? It seems they'd have to show that the doctor or DME was somehow responsible for the patient having changed his pressure, or was somehow negligent in either allowing the patient to do so or preventing the patient from doing so.

Of course, you can't blame them for being paranoid about lawsuits.

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INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.
07-19-2012 07:52 PM
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zonk Offline

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Post: #10
RE: Changing Settings
(07-19-2012 01:11 PM)iTeachCpap Wrote:  It is not illegal if you change your pressure. We won't stop taking care of you.
Not illegal............Whats the problem ?
If been taken care of in the first place.......This conversation would not taken a place
07-19-2012 08:24 PM
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