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Climate line tubing for the S9 - What setting?
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aehjr Offline

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Post: #21
RE: Climate line tubing for the S9 - What setting?
Thanks. I'll change my settings tonight to something closer to the room temp.
03-03-2013 02:29 PM
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buckwheat Offline

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Post: #22
RE: Climate line tubing for the S9 - What setting?
(09-01-2012 10:42 PM)PaulaO2 Wrote:  There's also the climate control which does both the temp of the humidifier heater and the temp of the hose. Do you have the clinician's manual? It tells how to get in there and set that up if you want to control them separately.

Paula - I've seen this posted a few times on the forum. To my knowledge, and ResMed's tech support, the S9 Auto does NOT let you choose between hose and tank heat separately.

It does however allow you to choose between humidity and temp. Now what that "temp" is I'm unclear - hose or tank. This is also not documented in the Clinician's manual for the S9. Any ideas?
08-22-2013 11:22 PM
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zonk Offline

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Post: #23
RE: Climate line tubing for the S9 - What setting?
At the mask end of the climate line, there is a sensor measure the temperature
http://www.s9morecomfort.com/s9morecomfo...ntrol.html

check user instructions for auto and manual modes operations
http://www.resmed.com/au/assets/document...lo_eng.pdf

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08-22-2013 11:39 PM
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Mark Risley Offline

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Post: #24
RE: Climate line tubing for the S9 - What setting?
72 to 74 works great for me
08-23-2013 07:24 AM
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buckwheat Offline

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Post: #25
RE: Climate line tubing for the S9 - What setting?
(08-22-2013 11:39 PM)zonk Wrote:  At the mask end of the climate line, there is a sensor measure the temperature

check user instructions for auto and manual modes operations


Welcome

Again, the OP said that "you can control separate tank temp and the hose temp at the same time". No, you cannot. I suggest you read the same manual you kindly referred me to. If the S9 is placed into manual mode, it will only display HOSE heat temp. The tank temp will take on a world of it's own which you have no control, heating up only when the firmware has programmed it. In any event, you have no control over those 3 variables at the same time: 1) humidity 2) hose temp 3) tank temp

Am I wrong? If so, do a screen shot of the page in the RTFM manual you have linked and post it. It would be most appreciated.
08-23-2013 12:10 PM
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vsheline Offline

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Machine: S9 VPAP Adapt (USA Model# 36007, not better 36037 or 36067)
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Post: #26
RE: Climate line tubing for the S9 - What setting?
(08-22-2013 11:39 PM)zonk Wrote:  check user instructions for auto and manual modes operations
http://www.resmed.com/au/assets/document...lo_eng.pdf

(08-23-2013 12:10 PM)buckwheat Wrote:  Again, the OP said that "you can control separate tank temp and the hose temp at the same time". No, you cannot. I suggest you read the same manual you kindly referred me to. If the S9 is placed into manual mode, it will only display HOSE heat temp.

Hi buckwheat,

When climate control is placed in manual mode, the S9 series machines display both HOSE heat temp (61–86°F (16–30°C)) and TANK heat setting (0–6), which can be set independently.

In manual climate settings mode, any time we turn on the machine we can turn the large knob to see (and by pushing the knob, adjust) the tank heat setting. Another turn of the knob and we can see (and adjust) the hose temp. (I wish ResMed had put both settings on the same screen, but they didn't, and we need to turn the knob to switch between screens.)

I use manual mode on my S9. I prefer hose temp max'ed out and tank heating set to 5.0, which settings I think tend to give me more humidity than Auto mode does, unless I oversleep and the tank goes dry.

The quote below is from the user instructions to which Zonk kindly provided a link.

Climate Control modes

Climate Control Auto
The recommended (default) setting for Climate Control is Auto mode. In Auto mode, you have the ability to adjust air temperature (61-86°F (16-30°C)) depending on preference. Based on your selected air temperature, Climate Control automatically adjusts the humidifier output to maintain a constant, comfortable humidity level of 80% relative humidity while protecting against rainout. In Auto mode the default air temperature is set to 80°F (27°C).

Climate Control Manual
If enabled by the clinician, Climate Control can also be set to Manual. In this mode, air temperature and humidity can be set independently, providing you greater flexibility but without the rainout protection guaranteed in Auto mode. In this mode, air temperature (61–86°F (16–30°C)) and humidity level (0–6) can be set independently. If rainout occurs, either increase air temperature or decrease the humidity setting.

Membership in the Advisory Member group should not be understood as in any way implying medical expertise or qualification for advising Sleep Apnea patients concerning their treatment. The Advisory Member group provides advice and suggestions to Apnea Board administrators and staff on matters concerning Apnea Board operation and administrative policies - not on matters concerning treatment for Sleep Apnea. I think it is now too late to change the name of the group but I think Voting Member group would perhaps have been a more descriptive name for the group.
(This post was last modified: 08-24-2013 04:42 PM by vsheline.)
08-24-2013 01:05 PM
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trish6hundred Offline

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Post: #27
RE: Climate line tubing for the S9 - What setting?
Hi buckwheat,
WELCOME! to the forum.!

trish6hundred
08-24-2013 02:21 PM
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buckwheat Offline

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Post: #28
RE: Climate line tubing for the S9 - What setting?
(08-24-2013 01:05 PM)vsheline Wrote:  Hi buckwheat,

When climate control is placed in manual mode, the S9 series machines display both HOSE heat temp (61–86°F (16–30°C)) and TANK heat setting (0–6), which can be set independently.

In manual climate settings mode, any time we turn on the machine we can turn the large knob to see (and by pushing the knob, adjust) the tank heat setting. Another turn of the knob and we can see (and adjust) the hose temp. (I wish ResMed had put both settings on the same screen, but they didn't, and we need to turn the knob to switch between screens.)

I use manual mode on my S9. I prefer hose temp max'ed out and tank temp set to 5.0, which settings I think tend to give me more humidity than Auto mode does, unless I oversleep and the tank goes dry.

The quote below is from the user instructions to which Zonk kindly provided a link.

Climate Control modes

Climate Control Auto
The recommended (default) setting for Climate Control is Auto mode. In Auto mode, you have the ability to adjust air temperature (61-86°F (16-30°C)) depending on preference. Based on your selected air temperature, Climate Control automatically adjusts the humidifier output to maintain a constant, comfortable humidity level of 80% relative humidity while protecting against rainout. In Auto mode the default air temperature is set to 80°F (27°C).

Climate Control Manual
If enabled by the clinician, Climate Control can also be set to Manual. In this mode, air temperature and humidity can be set independently, providing you greater flexibility but without the rainout protection guaranteed in Auto mode. In this mode, air temperature (61–86°F (16–30°C)) and humidity level (0–6) can be set independently. If rainout occurs, either increase air temperature or decrease the humidity setting.

Yes, I see where you're coming from. However, you're confusing myself and other readers. I confirmed this with S9 tech support: The reading on all manual setting S9's is 1) HUMIDTY and 2) HOSE TEMP. It does NOT say "Tank Temp 0-6" as you mentioned. The 0-6 is a partial pressure humidity indication.

But your basic premise is certainly correct. The humidity setting, in reality, indeed controls tank heat to produce a desired humidity (remember warmer water will produce more water vapor through evaporation). In turn, the now warmed and saturated water flows through the hose. If the hose is cold, it will condensate (or sublimate depending), and form water or "rain out". If the hose is warm, it will just heat the water vapor and that's that. There's a certain temp where saturated air will condensate and become "100% humidity" which the "auto" setting will prevent.

Now why ResMed could not just simply label the humidity setting as "Tank Temp", and give me a temperature readout in degrees is beyond me. There is a special series of buttons to push that will eventually show you the tank temp (depending on firmware rev), and it's always a percentage above ambient (room) temp thus the 0-6 percent. As a user, I would really just want to keep it simple: 1) Tank Temp in Degrees, 2) Hose Temp in Degrees. There. Done.

I was told by Tech Support that the reasoning the temp indication is missing is not many users understand water vapor, condensation, sublimation or evaporation issues in a CPAP machine. Nor care llol. So they basically dumbed it down to the lowest common denominator "Humidity Setting". Which as you noted turns out, is a translation for tank temp.

Thanks!
08-24-2013 03:56 PM
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vsheline Offline

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Machine: S9 VPAP Adapt (USA Model# 36007, not better 36037 or 36067)
Mask Type: Full face mask
Mask Make & Model: F10 or SimPlus w/ 2Liners. MirageQuatro & Gecko gel pad
Humidifier: H5i
CPAP Pressure: 15 EPAP, PS 5-10
CPAP Software: ResScan

Other Comments: Marfan Syndrome, chronic bradycardia, occasional Cheyne-Stokes Respiration

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Post: #29
RE: Climate line tubing for the S9 - What setting?
(08-24-2013 03:56 PM)buckwheat Wrote:  Now why ResMed could not just simply label the humidity setting as "Tank Temp", and give me a temperature readout in degrees is beyond me. There is a special series of buttons to push that will eventually show you the tank temp (depending on firmware rev), and it's always a percentage above ambient (room) temp thus the 0-6 percent. As a user, I would really just want to keep it simple: 1) Tank Temp in Degrees, 2) Hose Temp in Degrees. There. Done.

I was told by Tech Support that the reasoning the temp indication is missing is not many users understand water vapor, condensation, sublimation or evaporation issues in a CPAP machine. Nor care llol. So they basically dumbed it down to the lowest common denominator "Humidity Setting". Which as you noted turns out, is a translation for tank temp.

Hi buckwheat,

Actually, I meant to always refer to the tank "heat setting", not the tank temp.

My assumption was that the tank humidity setting (0 - 6.0) is just a very simple indication that higher or lower heat (power) is being delivered to the tank when in manual climate control mode, regardless of temperature, much like if we change the heat setting on a burner on an electric stove. For example, I thought perhaps each 0.5 step might represent 2 or 3 Watts of additional power being delivered to heat the water. But, if the Tech Support person you spoke with is correct, it sounds like the tank heat setting may be more complex than that, such as perhaps measuring the temperature of the water and the air and adjusting how much the temperature of the water is higher than the temperature of the air.

Take care,
--- Vaughn

Membership in the Advisory Member group should not be understood as in any way implying medical expertise or qualification for advising Sleep Apnea patients concerning their treatment. The Advisory Member group provides advice and suggestions to Apnea Board administrators and staff on matters concerning Apnea Board operation and administrative policies - not on matters concerning treatment for Sleep Apnea. I think it is now too late to change the name of the group but I think Voting Member group would perhaps have been a more descriptive name for the group.
(This post was last modified: 08-24-2013 05:49 PM by vsheline.)
08-24-2013 05:44 PM
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buckwheat Offline

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Posts: 4
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Post: #30
RE: Climate line tubing for the S9 - What setting?
(08-24-2013 05:44 PM)vsheline Wrote:  
(08-24-2013 03:56 PM)buckwheat Wrote:  Now why ResMed could not just simply label the humidity setting as "Tank Temp", and give me a temperature readout in degrees is beyond me. There is a special series of buttons to push that will eventually show you the tank temp (depending on firmware rev), and it's always a percentage above ambient (room) temp thus the 0-6 percent. As a user, I would really just want to keep it simple: 1) Tank Temp in Degrees, 2) Hose Temp in Degrees. There. Done.

I was told by Tech Support that the reasoning the temp indication is missing is not many users understand water vapor, condensation, sublimation or evaporation issues in a CPAP machine. Nor care llol. So they basically dumbed it down to the lowest common denominator "Humidity Setting". Which as you noted turns out, is a translation for tank temp.

Hi buckwheat,

Actually, I meant to always refer to the tank "heat setting", not the tank temp.

My assumption was that the tank humidity setting (0 - 6.0) is just a very simple indication that higher or lower heat (power) is being delivered to the tank when in manual climate control mode, regardless of temperature, much like if we change the heat setting on a burner on an electric stove. For example, I thought perhaps each 0.5 step might represent 2 or 3 Watts of additional power being delivered to heat the water. But, if the Tech Support person you spoke with is correct, it sounds like the tank heat setting may be more complex than that, such as perhaps measuring the temperature of the water and the air and adjusting how much the temperature of the water is higher than the temperature of the air.

Take care,
--- Vaughn

Vaughn, you actually knew what that setting was doing all along, my apologies for challenging you. But like me, having a hard time figuring out the still-automatic part of the humidity setting even on "manual". The "Tank Temp" as some refer to is actually displayed as "Humidity Setting, 1-6" :

   

Notice it will accommodate 100% humidity at setting 6, relevant to room (ambient) temperature. Which again baffles me - if they couldn't give me a tank temp setting, they why not a RH? Unfortunately, it leaves us all guessing what this 1-6 really is, as each column in the table (above) takes on a totally different meaning for those 1-6 numbers.

I never thought of voltage/power going to the heat pad - that would also be a better indication. Alas, 1-6 is still nebulous, and still leaves me wondering what I've really set the machine to do. And most techs have no idea what it does other than "just leave it on that setting" etc.

Thanks for your trouble, and all the best -
08-24-2013 08:37 PM
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