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Continuing Airsense 10 Humidity and Weird Data Problems
#1
I am continuing to get such strange data on Sleepyhead from my Airsense 10 for Her - and some days I feel so horrible I can barely get out of bed and stay awake for a few hours. For example on 12/10 - the Graphs by Pressure Tables showed somewhat rational AHIs ranging from 4 at 11/7 at 12/10 at 13/11 at 14/15 at 15 until the pressure reached 16 - then:

16 - 19.15 AHIs in 15 minutes (possible, I guess)
17 - 46.63 AHIs in 6 minutes (strange)
18 - 450.0 AHIs (Yes, that's what it says) in .1 minute (impossible?)

Machine is set to Autoset range of 10-18 - Minimal Leak - Med pressure of 12.4/95% at 15.75/Max 18.0

There is always crazy data at about 17 and 18 - like 70 AHIs in 4 minutes, 105 AHIs in .6 minute, etc.

I also noticed Sleepyhead may not be able to adjust for hours I lay awake and try to sleep - I think when I may lay awake for 3 hours and thus the AHIs are zero during those 3 hours, the resulting Average AHI is shown as lower than it Really is during the actual sleeping period, because it's counting that as "sleeping" time.

I know my AHIs in general are pretty bad and Nothing I do seems to change that. It's hard to believe it's a mask problem when there's very little leakage.

Humidity Issues are continuing - I retried the Auto Humidity with the Climate Line tubing several times and it always tries to drown me - water Spraying everywhere. Set on Manual and Humidity turned Way Down results in just really bad rainout. The largest Cpap Company (don't know if I can say their name) told me pretty much they don't care and can't do anything for me and can't find anything wrong with the thing (because they only "test" it for 4 hours and not with a Breeze mask) They all but told me to go jump in a lake which actually I already have one in my Climateline hose.

I'm not sure what to do. I don't know what else to try and don't know what's wrong. I retried my ResMed S9 and other than no rainout, the numbers were still not wonderful - about 7-14 each night. Some days I felt a little better and others not so much. The S9 does not have the crazy data at pressures from 16-18 with 80-150 AHIs and higher in a couple of minutes.
I did reset my data and all the strange numbers are still there.

Also the most common pressures are lower on the S9 than the Airsense 10 - on the S9 they float around 9-12, and on the Airsense it's more 10-15 which is interesting - both are set to auto with an EPR of 3. ResMed told me that the algorithm should be the same or not much different so .......?

Any thoughts about what else to try would be appreciated.
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#2
An A.H.I. is not a normal number, it is an average of many events over time. It is the total number of "events" (Obstructive and Central apneas and Hypopneas) averaged over the time (in hours) that you were using the machine. What matters is the average, not the number in any given period of time. So if you had 20 events in one hour but you got five hours of sleep and no other events you score an A.H.I. of 4. I would ignore the events in each hour unless you are running terribly high. If your overall A.H.I. is less than five then your apnea is being treated.
Ed Seedhouse
VA7SDH

The above is my opinion.  It is just possible that I may, occasionally, be mistaken.

I am neither a Doctor, nor any other kind of medical professional.

Everything put together sooner or later falls apart.
Your brain is not the boss.
Our forefathers took drugs.
He's no fun he fell right over.
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#3
What really matters is the AHI reading you see in the morning. This is the average of all events that occured during the night divided by number of hours slept.

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#4
(12-18-2015, 06:04 PM)eseedhouse Wrote: An A.H.I. is not a normal number, it is an average of many events over time. It is the total number of "events" (Obstructive and Central apneas and Hypopneas) averaged over the time (in hours) that you were using the machine. What matters is the average, not the number in any given period of time. So if you had 20 events in one hour but you got five hours of sleep and no other events you score an A.H.I. of 4. I would ignore the events in each hour unless you are running terribly high. If your overall A.H.I. is less than five then your apnea is being treated.

Unfortunately, it is running about 6-14 every day. - I cannot get it down no matter what -
different machines/beds/pillows/settings/masks/humidities/whatever - and sadly, I feel like it is high - not rested at all and very groggy and fuzzy-headed and exhausted. I do know what AHI is - I just can't get it down to a "well-treated" average apnea number.
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#5
(12-18-2015, 07:26 PM)bluemom51 Wrote: Unfortunately, it is running about 6-14 every day. - I cannot get it down no matter what -
different machines/beds/pillows/settings/masks/humidities/whatever - and sadly, I feel like it is high - not rested at all and very groggy and fuzzy-headed and exhausted. I do know what AHI is - I just can't get it down to a "well-treated" average apnea number.

First of all that level, while not good, may still be better than what you had without the machine. So in that sense it may still be doing you some good. Secondly you really do have to be proactive with your DME and Doctors and *insist* on getting better treatment. Make sure that they know that you expect better and want advice and help. And thirdly you want to make sure you are reviewing all the data every day and looking for patterns. Mask fit is the biggest problem for most people, and if the one you have isn't doing the job you need to get another one. And lastly XPAP, while the scientifically proven treatment for Apneas is not suitable for every single case. I was getting great AHI's yet still felt I was going downhill in spite of that. In my case adding supplemental oxygen at night did the trick. Have you had a home oxymetry and if so how are your oxygen levels? I had very low oxygen levels in spite of the fact that my Apneas and hypopneas were being treated down to very low levels.

We are all different - there is almost certainly a solution out there for you but you have to stand up and advocate for yourself.

Ed Seedhouse
VA7SDH

The above is my opinion.  It is just possible that I may, occasionally, be mistaken.

I am neither a Doctor, nor any other kind of medical professional.

Everything put together sooner or later falls apart.
Your brain is not the boss.
Our forefathers took drugs.
He's no fun he fell right over.
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#6
(12-18-2015, 08:59 PM)eseedhouse Wrote:
(12-18-2015, 07:26 PM)bluemom51 Wrote: Unfortunately, it is running about 6-14 every day. - I cannot get it down no matter what -
different machines/beds/pillows/settings/masks/humidities/whatever - and sadly, I feel like it is high - not rested at all and very groggy and fuzzy-headed and exhausted. I do know what AHI is - I just can't get it down to a "well-treated" average apnea number.

First of all that level, while not good, may still be better than what you had without the machine. So in that sense it may still be doing you some good. Secondly you really do have to be proactive with your DME and Doctors and *insist* on getting better treatment. Make sure that they know that you expect better and want advice and help. And thirdly you want to make sure you are reviewing all the data every day and looking for patterns. Mask fit is the biggest problem for most people, and if the one you have isn't doing the job you need to get another one. And lastly XPAP, while the scientifically proven treatment for Apneas is not suitable for every single case. I was getting great AHI's yet still felt I was going downhill in spite of that. In my case adding supplemental oxygen at night did the trick. Have you had a home oxymetry and if so how are your oxygen levels? I had very low oxygen levels in spite of the fact that my Apneas and hypopneas were being treated down to very low levels.

We are all different - there is almost certainly a solution out there for you but you have to stand up and advocate for yourself.


Agree - Haven't seen a sleep doctor in about 5 years - just found one I think may be nice (the last one yelled a lot) and have an appointment in about a month. I dread going through the whole sleep lab thing again because I fall asleep at about 4 and they wake me up at 5:30 so it just seems like a huge expensive waste of time - how can they possibly get accurate data that way? But what else is there - I've tried everything I can try on my own.

I don't have a DME - just purchased my machines online after I was diagnosed in 2006 - at that time they said standard CPAP at a fixed 11, but then APAPs started being used more so I switched to the S9 - My results weren't great with either fixed or auto, so......I will have to find a DME after seeing the doctor (hope he is decent and can help) and then, as you suggest, stand up for myself. I have taken a lot of abuse from a couple of sleep docs - one that weighed about 80 lbs and kept screaming at me about my weight, and the first one, that when I said I was nervous about my first sleep study and using a mask, started screaming at me that "if I wanted to die, that was Fine with him - I could just skip it". I was not rude or did not say I would not do it, I just quietly said I was a little nervous. Good grief.......

But I'm older now, and have reached my limit of being insulted or screamed at by medical "professionals" so I will take your advice and quit being their doormat. It's hard to find a good sleep doctor - their reviews are pretty much what I have experienced also. But everyone seems to love this doctor I'm going to see, and even though he is 2 hours away, I hope it will be worth it. My data doesn't show any mask leaks, but I have not had any kind of oxygen study, so that may, indeed, be part of the puzzle. Thanks for the encouragement.
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#7
One more thing to add here is that it is very possible you won't need a formal in lab sleep study. These days the sleep docs tend to send you home with an overnight sleep study kit after showing you how to hook it all up. This tends to let you sleep more naturally - undisturbed and in your own bed. I totally agree with what Ed wrote. Be proactive in your care. You are as much a part of your medical team as your doctors. Keep at it and let us know how it goes.
Coffee
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#8
If you want some ideas, it wouldn't hurt to post some data. The forum collective is pretty good at focusing in on issues that seem perplexing.

https://sleep.tnet.com/reference/tips/imgur
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#9
(12-19-2015, 12:33 PM)Sleeprider Wrote: If you want some ideas, it wouldn't hurt to post some data. The forum collective is pretty good at focusing in on issues that seem perplexing.

https://sleep.tnet.com/reference/tips/imgur


Yes, I am going to figure out how to do that next week - I just know some of the data looks strange to me and I look forward to getting more knowledgeable interpretations. Thanks.
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#10
Hi bluemom51,
I wish you good luck at your sleep doc appointment and hopefully, you found one that will listen and not yell and treat you like a child.
trish6hundred
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