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Contrasting experience with PR One 560 vs A10
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Dafod Offline

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Posts: 75
Joined: Feb 2015

Machine: Resmed Airsense 10 Autoset or PR1 560
Mask Type: Nasal pillows
Mask Make & Model: Resmed P10, Amara View
Humidifier: Yes
CPAP Pressure: 8-15
CPAP Software: ResScan SleepyHead

Other Comments:

Sex: Male
Location: Australia

Post: #1
Contrasting experience with PR One 560 vs A10
My main machine has been a Resmed A10 (last 10mths). Over the past 18 days I have been traveling and I picked up a new PR560 (new) that I was able to buy relatively cheaply since its now a superseded model (for the trip and to be used as my backup machine). Contrasting the two machines my main observations have been:

The PR560 seems a lot more "gentle" than the A10 regarding changing pressure. On both of them I used the same P10 mask with a chin strap and essentially the same settings regarding the pressure ranges and EPR.

The result of using the PR560 is both positive and negative as I seem to have less disturbed sleep, have lower top-end pressures at the mask, which results in virtually no aerophagia (unlike the A10 which can be bad), and less mask/mouth leaks. The negatives is my AHI is higher, at around 0.5 to 3.5 with the PR560 picking up more hypopneas (although I get that the two machines are not necessarily directly comparable on incidents). While my noted hypopneas on the machines are not directly comparable the duration of the events with the 560 are typically 20-50 seconds while only being 10-12 seconds on the A10. Also, it seems that when I start to go to sleep the PR560 cuts off the end of my inhalation if I don't more forcefully inhale. Later when I somehow get in sypatico with the machine I don't notice this.
With the A10 I have had nights where I have mask/mouth leaks near and above 25. This didn't happen with the 560. Reviewing the occurrences in Sleepyhead I noted they virtually all occur when the A10 quickly ramps up pressure to manage or head-off an event.

The EPR on the A10 is 2 and my Flex A is 2 (I think) on the 560. Also pressure range on both machines is 6/7-16.

Just curious whether people have experienced similar things? Whilst both machines seem very good and manage my apneas they seem to go about it quite differently - more than I had expected.
(This post was last modified: 01-09-2016 10:13 PM by Dafod.)
01-09-2016 10:08 PM
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Ghost1958 Offline

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Posts: 957
Joined: Aug 2014

Machine: PRS1 Series Sixty Auto Aflex
Mask Type: Nasal mask
Mask Make & Model: F&P Eson
Humidifier: PRS1 with Heated Hose
CPAP Pressure: 10.5 min 16 max
CPAP Software: SleepyHead EncoreBasic

Other Comments: Moderate to Severe SA Obstructive. Rapid O2 desat off the machine.

Sex: Male
Location: KY

Post: #2
RE: Contrasting experience with PR One 560 vs A10
Epr and aflex work differently
EPR is a straight pressure drop.
Aflex is flow based.
Try setting your aflex to 1to lessen the "air cutoff" feeling.
01-09-2016 11:38 PM
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vsheline Offline

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Posts: 1,907
Joined: Jul 2012

Machine: S9 VPAP Adapt (USA Model# 36007, not better 36037 or 36067)
Mask Type: Full face mask
Mask Make & Model: F10 or SimPlus w/ 2Liners. MirageQuatro & Gecko gel pad
Humidifier: H5i
CPAP Pressure: 15 EPAP, PS 5-10
CPAP Software: ResScan

Other Comments: Marfan Syndrome, chronic bradycardia, occasional Cheyne-Stokes Respiration

Sex: Male
Location: California, USA

Post: #3
RE: Contrasting experience with PR One 560 vs A10
(01-09-2016 11:38 PM)Ghost1958 Wrote:  Try setting your aflex to 1 to lessen the "air cutoff" feeling.

Right.

ResMed EPR has only straight pressure drop which lasts the whole time between start of exhale to start of inhale.

A-Flex of 1, 2 and 3 all have 2 cm H2O of straight pressure drop but have different amounts of additional Flow-based pressure drop.

When actively breathing out, there is an additional amount of pressure drop based on how forcefully we are exhaling. This Flow-based additional pressure relief goes away as we stop actively exhaling, which makes it less easy to finish the last bit of our exhalation. But there is method in this madness, since the reduction in pressure relief as exhalation is ending reduces the pressure drop to 2 cm H2O just before inhalation starts; the most vulnerable time for an obstructive apnea to begin is just as inhalation starts, because of the suction created by breathing in.

With A-Flex of 1 (and even more so with A-Flex of 2 or 3) the pressure at the end of inhalation drops as our inhalation Flow is ending, which makes it less easy to finish the last bit of our inhalation. This means the high inhalation pressure will last longer (and finishing our inhalation will be easier) when A-Flex is 1. But the beginning of exhalation will be easiest when A-Flex is 3.

Membership in the Advisory Member group should not be understood as in any way implying medical expertise or qualification for advising Sleep Apnea patients concerning their treatment. The Advisory Member group provides advice and suggestions to Apnea Board administrators and staff on matters concerning Apnea Board operation and administrative policies - not on matters concerning treatment for Sleep Apnea. I think it is now too late to change the name of the group but I think Voting Member group would perhaps have been a more descriptive name for the group.
(This post was last modified: 01-10-2016 01:06 AM by vsheline.)
01-10-2016 12:39 AM
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OpalRose Offline

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Posts: 3,166
Joined: Nov 2014

Machine: PR System One REMstar Auto 560 with A Flex
Mask Type: Nasal pillows
Mask Make & Model: AirFit P10 For Her
Humidifier: REMStar heated humidifier with heated hose
CPAP Pressure: Auto Cpap 10-13 AFLEX 1
CPAP Software: SleepyHead EncoreBasic

Other Comments: Started CPAP Therapy October 23, 2014

Sex: Female
Location: Northeast Ohio, USA

Post: #4
RE: Contrasting experience with PR One 560 vs A10
vsheline,
I really appreciate how you take the time to explain the difference in how pressure relief works between the different machines.

I never fully understood how the AFLEX setting was working on my APAP untill I was almost 8 months into therapy. I tried all three settings, and in the last few months have settled on AFLEX 2. It seems to work best for me, and reading your description confirms why. I always felt like my inhalation was being cut off just a bit when set to 3.

It's just a matter of trial and error.

Dafod,
I never used a ResMed machine, so can't give any input on the differences.

OpalRose
(This post was last modified: 01-10-2016 08:53 AM by OpalRose.)
01-10-2016 08:40 AM
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under pressure Offline

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Posts: 139
Joined: Feb 2014

Machine: ResMed Airsense 10 Autoset
Mask Type: Full face mask
Mask Make & Model: F&P Simplus
Humidifier: Integrated
CPAP Pressure: 11 - 14
CPAP Software: ResScan SleepyHead

Other Comments: Also use F&P Icon Auto and Z1 Auto for travel and Backup

Sex: Male
Location: Colorado

Post: #5
RE: Contrasting experience with PR One 560 vs A10
You mention different leak rates, but they are measured completely differently between the two machines, one includes design vent rate of the mask, the other does not.......the 25 or so you mentioned on the Resmed is considered low or no leak so your real leak rates between the two machines is basically the same.
01-10-2016 11:13 AM
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Kadenz Offline

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Joined: Apr 2012

Machine: ResMed AirSense 10 Autoset
Mask Type: Full face mask
Mask Make & Model: AirFit F10
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CPAP Pressure: Auto-CPAP
CPAP Software: SleepyHead

Other Comments:

Sex: Male
Location: England

Post: #6
RE: Contrasting experience with PR One 560 vs A10
My own experience with these two machines is that I had much higher AHI scores with the PR1 machine and slightly more sleep disruption with the A10. The net result is that my sleep quality is significantly better with the A10. Hence I much prefer the A10 and have decommissioned the PR1. I find the A10 is also much easier to travel with.
01-10-2016 05:45 PM
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Dafod Offline

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Posts: 75
Joined: Feb 2015

Machine: Resmed Airsense 10 Autoset or PR1 560
Mask Type: Nasal pillows
Mask Make & Model: Resmed P10, Amara View
Humidifier: Yes
CPAP Pressure: 8-15
CPAP Software: ResScan SleepyHead

Other Comments:

Sex: Male
Location: Australia

Post: #7
RE: Contrasting experience with PR One 560 vs A10
Thanks everyone for the interesting feedback. I will have to try the flex at 1 rather than 2. My thoughts is that Resmed has the advantage on the EPR as I find the flex approach with the 560 as somewhat crude.

Kadenz, your comment regarding what you now use is interesting. Where I am with this is I have put away the 560 since I am back home at the moment. I wondered since the 560 was slower/softer in responding to apparent apneas compared to the A10 whether the less disrupted sleep somewhat countered the longer apnea times. It did trouble me that my hypopneas really increased in duration (by apnea). I would think this could be more damaging than waking up more often. I guess if you can tolerate the spikes in pressure under the Resmed algorithm compared to the more gentle but possibly less effective approach by the PR1 it would seem to be preferable.
01-10-2016 06:10 PM
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Kadenz Offline

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Joined: Apr 2012

Machine: ResMed AirSense 10 Autoset
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CPAP Software: SleepyHead

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Sex: Male
Location: England

Post: #8
RE: Contrasting experience with PR One 560 vs A10
(01-10-2016 06:10 PM)Dafod Wrote:  Thanks everyone for the interesting feedback. I will have to try the flex at 1 rather than 2. My thoughts is that Resmed has the advantage on the EPR as I find the flex approach with the 560 as somewhat crude.

Kadenz, your comment regarding what you now use is interesting. Where I am with this is I have put away the 560 since I am back home at the moment. I wondered since the 560 was slower/softer in responding to apparent apneas compared to the A10 whether the less disrupted sleep somewhat countered the longer apnea times. It did trouble me that my hypopneas really increased in duration (by apnea). I would think this could be more damaging than waking up more often. I guess if you can tolerate the spikes in pressure under the Resmed algorithm compared to the more gentle but possibly less effective approach by the PR1 it would seem to be preferable.

Dafod, my sleep is typically disrupted 1 to 2 times per night (sometimes 3 times, occasionally none) these days and that almost always occurs when the pressure has risen relatively sharply. That does influence how refreshed or not I feel the next day. But the bottom line is that I nonetheless feel less tired than I did with the significantly higher AHI with the PR1. I'm typically around 0.5 (sometimes 0.0 & rarely more than 1) with the A10 but it was more like 6 or 7 with the PR1.

I guess the algorythms used by each machine suit some folks well and others less well. We're very fortunate in being able to compare and choose between them.
01-11-2016 03:33 PM
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MtFallsTodd Offline

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Posts: 19
Joined: Oct 2015

Machine: PR auto A-Flex
Mask Type: Nasal pillows
Mask Make & Model: PR Nuance Pro
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Other Comments: Get to know your local water ways and what lives in them. It will give you a lifetime of enjoyment.

Sex: Male
Location: Winchester, VA

Post: #9
RE: Contrasting experience with PR One 560 vs A10
From my experience the PR560 suits me better. The A10 ramping speed kept waking me up. I had lower AHI with the A10 but I think it was because I don't obstruct when I'm awake!!!!!
01-12-2016 04:50 AM
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DanPrado Offline

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Machine: RemStar Auto with A-Flex (560P)
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Sex: Male
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Post: #10
RE: Contrasting experience with PR One 560 vs A10
(01-10-2016 08:40 AM)OpalRose Wrote:  vsheline,
I really appreciate how you take the time to explain the difference in how pressure relief works between the different machines.

I never fully understood how the AFLEX setting was working on my APAP untill I was almost 8 months into therapy. I tried all three settings, and in the last few months have settled on AFLEX 2. It seems to work best for me, and reading your description confirms why. I always felt like my inhalation was being cut off just a bit when set to 3.

It's just a matter of trial and error.

Dafod,
I never used a ResMed machine, so can't give any input on the differences.

Just saying thanks, newer user and thought that the initial short breath was due to "ramp up" or just putting up with things - read this post last night switched the machine to 2 immediately felt better, less stress.
01-14-2016 09:57 PM
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