04-07-2015, 08:37 AM
(This post was last modified: 04-07-2015, 08:39 AM by DocWils.)
Okay, looked in my Physician's Compendium for the AMA listings, and Öz, Mehmet Cengiz is a respected cardiologist at NY Presby, which is a pretty good hospital. So I doubt all he talks is rubbish, but as I and other docs have learned when we do TV shows (we have one here called Pulse, and it is not a sensationalist show by any means) it is easy to wrong foot yourself and say things that get taken out of context, so I will give him the benefit of the doubt. I did one or two appearances on tv shows as a medical expert and regretted it immensely, swore I wouldn't do it again (and then did) because I ventured an opinion that others in my profession jumped on, and although I was dead right in what I said, I didn't say it well and it was easy to misunderstand and go in the utterly wrong direction with it. Talking about complex medical subjects to lay people is a special art, and you have to be very careful, also because you give it a weight of authority, and if the person takes it in the wrong way, he takes that authority with him.
So, if I say that some people seem react well to to D6 dosages of arnica as post-op anti-bruising agent (which I did early in my career on TV), you can read that as an endorsement of homeopathic medicine (I don't, it is utter rubbish, and yes, the all the evidence is in on that one - the last conclusive studies are now published) or you can read that as it really is - an idiopathic result that probably has nothing to do with the arnica at all - and actually it doesn't have to do with the arnica - I tried it with a placebo once after catching considerable hell from colleagues over my utterance, told them it was arnica and gave them clear instructions how to take it before and post op and what to expect, and, lo and behold, it worked, so arnica in homeopathic doses is likely a placebo effect in those who have that ability (and believe it or not, there is a bit of that in the healing process) and I have since started a process of studies with students that may ultimately stop the practice of recommending arnica here, or at least educate the doctors here as to why it works and leave it up to them (arnica for post op healing is wide spread here, for some odd reason, as are other non-school medical ideas) - sugar pills are not always a bad thing if it helps healing.
Not having seen Dr. Oz's shows, I cannot say if he is spouting rubbish or not, but I do know that in his actual practice as opposed to his TV practice, at least according to the AMA, he is well thought of and has received no warnings, so it may be just stuff out of context and TV lights doing all the damage in his case. And he may have a case of "the wonder of it all" where he tries to convey how mysterious and wonderful the working so the body is, and gets taken out of context. Remember that medical knowledge is a constantly growing and changing thing, and we keep doing a LOT of trial and error learning in this biz.
(04-06-2015, 08:40 PM)TyroneShoes Wrote: But these guys also serve a purpose, which is to constantly remind us that doctors are not gods (except for Wills, of course),
True and most true - you found me out
(04-06-2015, 08:40 PM)TyroneShoes Wrote: and they sometimes eff up and sometimes don't provide what they should. Question authority; don't be lulled by a framed diploma, or a guy wearing scrubs on a TV show for no real reason other than to elevate his assumed professional status with viewers, or just because he drapes a stethoscope around his neck for effect.
Again true. Any one who drapes a stetho around his neck on TV talk shows is an idiot or a poseur. Heck, except for cardios and emerg types here (and some nurses), no one does that in our hospital even on duty - either there is a handy one on the crash cart or we keep it in the pocket of our lab coat. I rarely ever have one on, since I am not in Inner Medicine. Only when I do my regular ER shift (just to keep me sharp) do I carry one, and that one is hospital issue, not my personal one. And my favourite one, which I got when I was a med student is at home in the cupboard, and only brought out when my Other Half wants me to fuss over her or someone in the family. I have a spare in my bag which is mandatory, of course, for any emergencies.
BTW, I don't know about USA, but here it is mandatory to display your diploma and license in your practice rooms. It doesn't have to be in your surgery, my GP has his in the waiting room, but it has to be displayed. Only when you are a staff doctor in a hospital it is not mandatory, and then only because of practical purposes - you may have to switch offices regularly, and the assumption is then that as a staff doc, you are vetted by the hospital. But you do have to display it in private practice.
A large part of the problem with Oz is his tendency to feature "fad" fixes for obesity, nutrition, hormone balance, and sensationalizing results that are not based on repeatable experiments. In addition, once he has lent his name to something, every scammer markets the product under a similar name and rips off unsuspecting users/buyers. He once featured Rasberry Ketone, and the next thing you saw was scammers offering a free sample of RK as seen on Dr. Oz. Well the free sample ended up costing you close to $100 if you didn't read the fine print and return the unused portion in a week. Many examples like this have tarnished his name, but he does nothing to avoid sensationalism in his quest for more viewers.
(04-07-2015, 09:00 AM)Sleeprider Wrote: A large part of the problem with Oz is his tendency to feature "fad" fixes for obesity, nutrition, hormone balance, and sensationalizing results that are not based on repeatable experiments. In addition, once he has lent his name to something, every scammer markets the product under a similar name and rips off unsuspecting users/buyers. He once featured Rasberry Ketone, and the next thing you saw was scammers offering a free sample of RK as seen on Dr. Oz. Well the free sample ended up costing you close to $100 if you didn't read the fine print and return the unused portion in a week. Many examples like this have tarnished his name, but he does nothing to avoid sensationalism in his quest for more viewers.
I refrained from mentioning this, but few TV Drs get grilled by congress about whether weight loss solutions they hawk "pass scientific muster". Google this (at Huff post) if you dare (or care). The idiocy has to rise to a particular level to get on their radar.
One more and I'll drop it.
Today a number of his colleagues asked that Columbia fire him from the faculty (available at USA Today).
If everyone you work with goes to your boss and asks that you be dismissed, that might be an indicator that, at a minimum, there needs to be a close investigation into what you are doing and into what would motivate them to do that.
Maybe - or it could be jealousy (the docs here that do the TV shows get real nasty treatment from the those who don't - I have been on the receiving end of that, and it ain't pretty). There must be a solid reason for poor practice in his daily medical practice for there to be a good reason - hucksterism outside the practice doesn't count. It may be distasteful, but it doesn't count.
04-17-2015, 11:20 AM
(This post was last modified: 04-17-2015, 11:23 AM by TyroneShoes.)
OK, I guess docs are human. But I find it pretty dispiriting that jealousy could be their motivation for something this serious.
As I said, investigating their motivation is as important as investigating the facts.
And if "hucksterism...doesn't count", then that makes this even more serious.
So long as it is not within his working practice, no it doesn't count. What he does outside of working hours at Columbia is his own business, unless it contravenes thee law or is perceived by the licensing authorities as being detrimental to his ability to practice (or he starts sleeping with his students - that is a morals clause - selling snake oil isn't, so long as he does not do to Columbia patients, students or staff on Columbia's grounds). If all he is doing is dragging the "good name" of the department in the mud according to the staff due to his media fame and the tendency of hucksters to piggy back on his name without his consent, well, that is their problem.
Does he hurt the patients in any way? Does he teach the students the wrong things? Those are the only questions that count in terms of the hospital, and if those are the case, then he must be disciplined or dismissed. But getting rich off of a TV show, well, that is not part of Columbia's business. The most they can do is look at his grant funding and curtail it or reassign it if he has a thriving job on the side, since money is always short in the academic medical world. He could be a huge self satisfied jerk and it wouldn't make a difference - I can count on one hand the number of surgeons on staff here who are modest, unassuming and decent, easy to get along with types. The nursing staff probably would cut down that number even more. Heck, I can be a real martinet at times myself, although most of the people I work with consider me easy to get along with, if a bit intellectual and awkward socially, and a hard ass on my students. But when I did a series of local health TV show appearances, most of the other surgeons on staff were up in arms about it. They didn't get asked, you see, and they couldn't stomach it. When another doc on my floor wrote a book that got accepted as a new standard textbook in the German speaking medical schools, again he was treated like horse-hockey by the other docs. In a publish or perish world like we have, they get really jealous when you get that far up the academic ladder, and textbooks make great money, too. We would all give our eye teeth to get one of our books accepted as a standard textbook.