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DURATION OF APNEA, THIS DOESN'T SOUND RIGHT
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Marnid2014 Offline

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Post: #1
DURATION OF APNEA, THIS DOESN'T SOUND RIGHT
I notice that if I have an Apnea event, it can last sometimes for 16 to 25 seconds, the average is about 10 or 12, but I can't even hold my breath for 25 seconds without almost passing out, so this 25 second event makes no sense.

I am a VERY shallow breather at times, could this be registering as an Apnea but I am actually breathing shallow, or possibly from the mouth as well?

I still have my problem of waking up a lot during the night, I go right back to sleep, but I do remember waking up, especially because I look at the alarm clock. I have to move it so I don't see it I think. Maybe if I don't have it in sight it won't register.

My AHI is very low, 0.2, max 1.5 on certain nights, and the leaks are very low as well.
05-23-2014 06:52 AM
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herbm Offline

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Post: #2
RE: DURATION OF APNEA, THIS DOESN'T SOUND RIGHT
Likely you really are NOT breathing.

You can't hold our breath 25 seconds when AWAKE, and even then you are almost certainly in no danger of passing out; you just feel very uncomfortable or even panicky.

This is part of the BIG problem with apnea though: when you stop breathing, you body needs to wake up enough to get your breathing again, so it surges a bit of adrenaline.

If this happens dozens of times per hour, ever hour, every night, it can not only make you tired and miserable during the day but also do tremendous cumulative damage to your organs.

Sweet Dreams,

HerbM
Sleep study AHI: 49 RDI: 60 -- APAP 10-11 w/AHI: 1.5 avg for 7-days (up due likely to hip replacement recovery)

"We can all breathe together or we will all suffocate alone."
05-23-2014 08:17 AM
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Marnid2014 Offline

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Posts: 187
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Machine: ResMed S9 Elite
Mask Type: Nasal pillows
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CPAP Software: ResScan SleepyHead

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Sex: Female
Location: Florida

Post: #3
RE: DURATION OF APNEA, THIS DOESN'T SOUND RIGHT
Luckily, it doesn't happen much, so I guess that is a blessing. My AHI is very low and those events are very sporadic based on a 8 hour sleep cycle. My Apnea occurs during REM sleep, I wonder how often REM occurs? I was toying with the idea of trying the autoset, but maybe I should just let well enough alone. I have to quit fiddling, LOL. AHI of 0. something is really good especially when the leaks are low. If it aint' broke LOL.

I saw my doctor last week and he thinks an oral appliance would be a better choice for me now, since I am on such minimum pressure and have lost 15 lbs. I am about 30 lbs over weight and should reach my goal by December. I exercise 70 minutes a day, stationary bike and pool aerobics. I am considering it, but have a front cap on a tooth and sure don't want dental issues next.
(This post was last modified: 05-23-2014 08:34 AM by Marnid2014.)
05-23-2014 08:31 AM
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archangle Offline
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Post: #4
RE: DURATION OF APNEA, THIS DOESN'T SOUND RIGHT
(05-23-2014 06:52 AM)Marnid2014 Wrote:  I notice that if I have an Apnea event, it can last sometimes for 16 to 25 seconds, the average is about 10 or 12, but I can't even hold my breath for 25 seconds without almost passing out, so this 25 second event makes no sense.

Have you looked at the actual airflow waveforms? Do they look like you're not breathing at all, or breathing shallow, etc.?

As for lasting 25 seconds, you'd be surprised. Many of us have apneas that last much longer than you'd think you could have without waking. It's not uncommon to have 60 second or longer apneas during sleep tests. Apparently, you can put up with a lot more while sleeping, especially after your brain has gotten used to apena over many years.

Get the free SleepyHead software here.
Useful links.
Click here for information on the main alternative to CPAP.
If it's midnight and a DME tells you it's dark outside, go and check it yourself.
05-23-2014 10:33 AM
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Marnid2014 Offline

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Sex: Female
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Post: #5
RE: DURATION OF APNEA, THIS DOESN'T SOUND RIGHT
[attachment=830]
(05-23-2014 10:33 AM)archangle Wrote:  
(05-23-2014 06:52 AM)Marnid2014 Wrote:  I notice that if I have an Apnea event, it can last sometimes for 16 to 25 seconds, the average is about 10 or 12, but I can't even hold my breath for 25 seconds without almost passing out, so this 25 second event makes no sense.

Have you looked at the actual airflow waveforms? Do they look like you're not breathing at all, or breathing shallow, etc.?

As for lasting 25 seconds, you'd be surprised. Many of us have apneas that last much longer than you'd think you could have without waking. It's not uncommon to have 60 second or longer apneas during sleep tests. Apparently, you can put up with a lot more while sleeping, especially after your brain has gotten used to apena over many years.

Here is the event, I am not sure what you mean????
(This post was last modified: 05-23-2014 10:46 AM by Marnid2014.)
05-23-2014 10:45 AM
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CHanlon Offline

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Post: #6
RE: DURATION OF APNEA, THIS DOESN'T SOUND RIGHT
(05-23-2014 08:31 AM)Marnid2014 Wrote:  Luckily, it doesn't happen much, so I guess that is a blessing. My AHI is very low and those events are very sporadic based on a 8 hour sleep cycle. My Apnea occurs during REM sleep, I wonder how often REM occurs? I was toying with the idea of trying the autoset, but maybe I should just let well enough alone. I have to quit fiddling, LOL. AHI of 0. something is really good especially when the leaks are low. If it aint' broke LOL.
I'd try an autoset.

You're on a low pressure, but on fixed CPAP, what happens when you need... 8? 10? You have a 25 second event...
05-23-2014 01:21 PM
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Marnid2014 Offline

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Location: Florida

Post: #7
RE: DURATION OF APNEA, THIS DOESN'T SOUND RIGHT
I guess it can't hurt to try it, first I have to figure out how to do it.
05-23-2014 01:50 PM
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glfredrick Offline

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Post: #8
RE: DURATION OF APNEA, THIS DOESN'T SOUND RIGHT
(05-23-2014 01:50 PM)Marnid2014 Wrote:  I guess it can't hurt to try it, first I have to figure out how to do it.

Your machine is rather easy to adjust, but don't do so because I or others here on the board say so, if you adjust do it because YOU say so after learning why and how.

I'd post a link, but they sort of frown on that here. Google "clinical settings for S9 autoset" and you will find what you need.
05-23-2014 02:25 PM
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becker44a Offline

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Post: #9
RE: DURATION OF APNEA, THIS DOESN'T SOUND RIGHT
(05-23-2014 06:52 AM)Marnid2014 Wrote:  I notice that if I have an Apnea event, it can last sometimes for 16 to 25 seconds, the average is about 10 or 12, but I can't even hold my breath for 25 seconds without almost passing out, so this 25 second event makes no sense.

Hi Marnid2014,
I looked at the Sleepyhead graphs you posted, and I encourage you to BELIEVE WHAT YOU SEE in them. First, the flow sensor in the S9 is one of it's primary sensors - I doubt the machine will even operate if that sensor isn't working.

I've studied my own graphs quite a bit, and it isn't uncommon for me to have events from 40 seconds to over a minute in length, and I know I can't easily hold my breath for times like that when I'm awake. I don't there is much correlation between what happens sleeping and awake.

Also, your graph is a perfect example of clustering. I somewhat dislike the AHI statistic because it ignores and somewhat disguises the effect of clustering. In looking at your graph, you first have an OA about 20+ seconds, then you take about 3 breaths, and go right into the next OA, a little shorter at 15+ seconds. Then, after about 4 breaths there is a 3rd event that wasn't counted because it wasn't quite long enough (an apnea must last at least 10 seconds to be scored). So this cluster amounts to about 50 seconds of non-breathing, spread over about 90 seconds total. A few breaths over the space of 90 seconds isn't going to do much for spO2.

This illustrates how your AHI can be looking very good, but if events are clustered, it's still bad for oxygenation, as well as all the other negative effects.

I would agree with the advice to try an autoset machine. It appears that your low pressure setting is fine most of the time. But when there is a cluster, you may need more pressure to counter the OA events.

Good luck on your CPAP journey.
A.Becker
05-23-2014 04:39 PM
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zonk Offline

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Post: #10
RE: DURATION OF APNEA, THIS DOESN'T SOUND RIGHT
(05-23-2014 02:25 PM)glfredrick Wrote:  Google "clinical settings for S9 autoset" and you will find what you need.
I don,t trust such links from Google to be free from viruses and bugs that would harm my computer

Here links you can trust Coffee
Scroll down to how to ask for clinical manual via Email
http://www.apneaboard.com/adjust-cpap-pr...tup-manual

S9 setup pictures and video http://www.apneaboard.com/resmed-s9-cpap-setup
05-23-2014 04:52 PM
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