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Dangers of Using a CPAP Machine
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TorontoCPAPguy Offline

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Posts: 143
Joined: May 2012

Machine: S9 Autoset II
Mask Type: Full face mask
Mask Make & Model: Mirage Quattro FFM
Humidifier: H5i; Control III Germicide
CPAP Pressure: 12-20
CPAP Software: ResScan SleepyHead

Other Comments: CMS50EW Oximeter; Everflo Q O2 Concentrator; O2 Analyzer; Climate Control Hose (winter)

Sex: Male
Location: Toronto; Southern USA; etc.

Post: #41
RE: Dangers of Using a CPAP Machine
(10-09-2014 09:23 AM)wheaton4prez Wrote:  I was concerned more with being suffocated by having the mask on and the machine going off or malfunctioning. Is that a possibility or is there some fail-safe design feature that would allow you to breathe with the mask on and the machine off?

I cannot speak for all masks, but I know that my Mirage Quattro full face mask has a built in leak rate sufficient to permit almost normal respiration if the blower goes off. This is actually NOT intended to be a fail safe but rather is intended to permit the flushing of extraneous and unwanted gases from the mask on a continuous basis.

I believe that ALL full face masks have built in intentional leak rates (constant). Nasal pillows and masks may not have any intentional leak rates as all one needs to do is breathe through their mouth assuming that you have not taped it closed or some other silliness.

When I get up to go and water the horses at night I don't even bother removing the mask, just pull the hose off at the mask and plug it back in when returning to bed.

Many will have different opinions but I have found, over the years, that FFM's (full face masks) work best for me.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Educate, Advocate, Contemplate.
Herein lies personal opinion, no professional advice, which ALL are well advised to seek.
10-09-2014 10:44 AM
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archangle Offline
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Machine: ResMed S9 AutoSet
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Post: #42
RE: Dangers of Using a CPAP Machine
(10-09-2014 09:23 AM)wheaton4prez Wrote:  Hello.

I came across this thread because I am scheduled to get a CPAP machine in a few days and I wanted to see if there were any risks.

I see that all of the discussion has been over too much pressure. I hadn't even considered that to be a danger. I was concerned more with being suffocated by having the mask on and the machine going off or malfunctioning. Is that a possibility or is there some fail-safe design feature that would allow you to breathe with the mask on and the machine off?

Welcome to our board. Sorry you had to join us.

Consider yourself lucky. Read the links in my signature line or there's a good chance you'll get screwed when you buy your CPAP machine. You REALLY want to be sure to get a fully data capable machine.

As for the machine going off, full face masks have an "anti-asphyxia" valve that opens up and lets you breathe in and out through a hole in the mask if the pressure goes away. For nasal masks, in theory, if the machine quits blowing, you'll open your mouth and breathe through that just like you would if you had a stopped up nose.

Get the free SleepyHead software here.
Useful links.
Click here for information on the main alternative to CPAP.
If it's midnight and a DME tells you it's dark outside, go and check it yourself.
10-09-2014 11:16 AM
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Sleepster Offline
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Machine: ResMed AirCurve10 VAuto
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CPAP Software: ResScan SleepyHead

Other Comments: Diagnosed Nov 2011. Conquered aerophagia.

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Post: #43
RE: Dangers of Using a CPAP Machine
(10-09-2014 09:23 AM)wheaton4prez Wrote:  I came across this thread because I am scheduled to get a CPAP machine in a few days and I wanted to see if there were any risks.

The pressure produced by a CPAP machine is only a tiny fraction of the pressure used, for example, to blow up a tire. There is no danger there, or really anywhere else.

The downside of CPAP therapy is that it's often bothersome at first. It's hard to adjust to sleeping with the thing, but most people manage to adjust, and then it's no bother at all.

Some people will find that they swallow the air, and that can be mildly, or even severely, uncomfortable.

The risks of having untreated sleep apnea are very bad. Life-threatening, in fact.

CPAP therapy is one of the most effective medical treatments ever devised. We are lucky to be living in an era where it's available. Our grandparents weren't so lucky. They were forced in many cases to live miserable sleep-deprived lives only to die early of a heart attack or stroke.

Sleepster
Apnea Board Moderator
www.ApneaBoard.com


INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.
10-09-2014 12:21 PM
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wheaton4prez Offline

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Joined: Oct 2014

Machine: Philips Remstar Auto AFlex DS560S
Mask Type: Full face mask
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CPAP Software: Not using software

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Post: #44
RE: Dangers of Using a CPAP Machine
(10-09-2014 10:44 AM)TorontoCPAPguy Wrote:  
(10-09-2014 09:23 AM)wheaton4prez Wrote:  I was concerned more with being suffocated by having the mask on and the machine going off or malfunctioning. Is that a possibility or is there some fail-safe design feature that would allow you to breathe with the mask on and the machine off?

I cannot speak for all masks, but I know that my Mirage Quattro full face mask has a built in leak rate sufficient to permit almost normal respiration if the blower goes off. This is actually NOT intended to be a fail safe but rather is intended to permit the flushing of extraneous and unwanted gases from the mask on a continuous basis.

I believe that ALL full face masks have built in intentional leak rates (constant). Nasal pillows and masks may not have any intentional leak rates as all one needs to do is breathe through their mouth assuming that you have not taped it closed or some other silliness.

When I get up to go and water the horses at night I don't even bother removing the mask, just pull the hose off at the mask and plug it back in when returning to bed.

Many will have different opinions but I have found, over the years, that FFM's (full face masks) work best for me.

Thank you. That really helps to understand how the masks are constructed.

I definitely breathe through my mouth more naturally. I think my nasal area is narrow to the point that very little air travels that way.

Does that suggest that I need a full mouth and nose mask? Or, does it suggest that my nasal airway is the problem and a nasal mask would fix that?

(10-09-2014 11:16 AM)archangle Wrote:  
(10-09-2014 09:23 AM)wheaton4prez Wrote:  Hello.

I came across this thread because I am scheduled to get a CPAP machine in a few days and I wanted to see if there were any risks.

I see that all of the discussion has been over too much pressure. I hadn't even considered that to be a danger. I was concerned more with being suffocated by having the mask on and the machine going off or malfunctioning. Is that a possibility or is there some fail-safe design feature that would allow you to breathe with the mask on and the machine off?

Welcome to our board. Sorry you had to join us.

Consider yourself lucky. Read the links in my signature line or there's a good chance you'll get screwed when you buy your CPAP machine. You REALLY want to be sure to get a fully data capable machine.

As for the machine going off, full face masks have an "anti-asphyxia" valve that opens up and lets you breathe in and out through a hole in the mask if the pressure goes away. For nasal masks, in theory, if the machine quits blowing, you'll open your mouth and breathe through that just like you would if you had a stopped up nose.

Thank you. I am happy to have found this site before I went in. I'm sure that you're right that they'll try something fishy. That kind of thing is why I delayed getting a CPAP machine.

I did a sleep study a few years ago mainly because my wife was worried about me stopping breathing at night. I didn't feel tired or anything at that time. But, after the study, the people at the place (who seemed like non-skilled, non-trained young workers to me) said that they "never find that anyone doesn't have sleep apnea." That, along with the place being covered with equipment marketing posters, materials, boxes, kiosks, etc. made me feel like it was all a scam. When I went back to the doctor, he said that I wasn't the first person to say that. So, I just dropped the issue entirely.

Now, a few years later, I am starting to feel like the apnea is affecting me and really want to find the right solution. But, I'm in a new place with a new doctor. This one had me do a take-home sleep study. Months passed afterward and they seem to have lost the results or never got them back from where the data is sent. Disappointing to the say the least. All they said was that they later looked into it and determined that I could get a CPAP covered by insurance without them getting the results back. And so, I now have the appointment to pick up the machine tomorrow.

The insurance side of things isn't great either. They said that I have to pay the entire amount because I haven't reached my deductible. The place I am going said they do rent-to-own. So, it's $150 or so a month for 6 months, then you own the machine. Plus $150 or so for the mask and other gear.

Because of what I read on this site, I'm going to scrutinize what equipment they are offering. If it doesn't collect data, I'm not going to go for it.

Since I have never had a doctor give me the air pressure setting I need as I have seen others discuss, it appeals to me to get the automatic CPAP model (APAP?). I honestly don't really trust that I can get the setting and study I need without a huge headache and expense. So, I would prefer a machine that does more. Am I correct in my thinking on that?

(10-09-2014 12:21 PM)Sleepster Wrote:  
(10-09-2014 09:23 AM)wheaton4prez Wrote:  I came across this thread because I am scheduled to get a CPAP machine in a few days and I wanted to see if there were any risks.

The pressure produced by a CPAP machine is only a tiny fraction of the pressure used, for example, to blow up a tire. There is no danger there, or really anywhere else.

The downside of CPAP therapy is that it's often bothersome at first. It's hard to adjust to sleeping with the thing, but most people manage to adjust, and then it's no bother at all.

Some people will find that they swallow the air, and that can be mildly, or even severely, uncomfortable.

The risks of having untreated sleep apnea are very bad. Life-threatening, in fact.

CPAP therapy is one of the most effective medical treatments ever devised. We are lucky to be living in an era where it's available. Our grandparents weren't so lucky. They were forced in many cases to live miserable sleep-deprived lives only to die early of a heart attack or stroke.

Thank you. I certainly seem to be feeling the effects. Tiredness, feeling out of breath at night and in the morning, memory loss, etc. Are those the typical signs? I've been reading that high blood pressure is a result. But, I have good blood pressure (nurse said "blood pressure of an 18 year old"). I sometimes surf 20 hours a week which isn't far off from doing a marathon or two. So, maybe that has masked some of the symptoms?
10-09-2014 02:51 PM
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zonk Offline

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Machine: A10 AutoSet
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Post: #45
RE: Dangers of Using a CPAP Machine
There is no danger of using CPAP but there is a danger of not using CPAP
10-09-2014 03:31 PM
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archangle Offline
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Posts: 3,159
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Machine: ResMed S9 AutoSet
Mask Type: Nasal pillows
Mask Make & Model: ResMed Swift FX
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CPAP Pressure: 16-20
CPAP Software: ResScan SleepyHead EncoreBasic

Other Comments: Happy PAPper

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Location: USA

Post: #46
RE: Dangers of Using a CPAP Machine
(10-09-2014 02:51 PM)wheaton4prez Wrote:  I did a sleep study a few years ago mainly because my wife was worried about me stopping breathing at night. I didn't feel tired or anything at that time. But, after the study, the people at the place (who seemed like non-skilled, non-trained young workers to me) said that they "never find that anyone doesn't have sleep apnea." That, along with the place being covered with equipment marketing posters, materials, boxes, kiosks, etc. made me feel like it was all a scam. When I went back to the doctor, he said that I wasn't the first person to say that. So, I just dropped the issue entirely.

Unless they actually commit fraud, an apnea diagnosis is usually pretty clear cut. A trained monkey could look at the test results for most apneacs and tell they had apnea. It's pretty black and white, and, if anything, they classify some people as non-apneac who actually need CPAP. The profit on CPAP is not high enough to make them risk outright fraud.

As for never seeing anyone without apnea, there are a lot of signs of apnea that doctors can spot. I think doctors don't usually send people for sleep tests unless it's obvious that they have it. If anything, doctors probably fail to send a lot of people who have apnea for sleep tests. The sleep lab may very well only see a small number of patients who aren't actually apneacs.

Get the free SleepyHead software here.
Useful links.
Click here for information on the main alternative to CPAP.
If it's midnight and a DME tells you it's dark outside, go and check it yourself.
10-09-2014 05:42 PM
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becker44a Offline

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Joined: Jan 2014

Machine: ResMed S9 Autoset
Mask Type: Full face mask
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CPAP Pressure: Rx 10 - 20cm, Usually 10-14cm
CPAP Software: ResScan SleepyHead

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Sex: Male
Location: NE Ohio, USA

Post: #47
RE: Dangers of Using a CPAP Machine
(10-09-2014 02:51 PM)wheaton4prez Wrote:  I came across this thread because I am scheduled to get a CPAP machine in a few days and I wanted to see if there were any risks.

I see that all of the discussion has been over too much pressure. I hadn't even considered that to be a danger. I was concerned more with being suffocated by having the mask on and the machine going off or malfunctioning. Is that a possibility or is there some fail-safe design feature that would allow you to breathe with the mask on and the machine off?

. . .

Thank you. I am happy to have found this site before I went in. I'm sure that you're right that they'll try something fishy. That kind of thing is why I delayed getting a CPAP machine.

I did a sleep study a few years ago mainly because my wife was worried about me stopping breathing at night. I didn't feel tired or anything at that time. But, after the study, the people at the place (who seemed like non-skilled, non-trained young workers to me) said that they "never find that anyone doesn't have sleep apnea." That, along with the place being covered with equipment marketing posters, materials, boxes, kiosks, etc. made me feel like it was all a scam. When I went back to the doctor, he said that I wasn't the first person to say that. So, I just dropped the issue entirely.

Now, a few years later, I am starting to feel like the apnea is affecting me and really want to find the right solution. But, I'm in a new place with a new doctor. This one had me do a take-home sleep study. Months passed afterward and they seem to have lost the results or never got them back from where the data is sent. Disappointing to the say the least. All they said was that they later looked into it and determined that I could get a CPAP covered by insurance without them getting the results back. And so, I now have the appointment to pick up the machine tomorrow.

The insurance side of things isn't great either. They said that I have to pay the entire amount because I haven't reached my deductible. The place I am going said they do rent-to-own. So, it's $150 or so a month for 6 months, then you own the machine. Plus $150 or so for the mask and other gear.

Because of what I read on this site, I'm going to scrutinize what equipment they are offering. If it doesn't collect data, I'm not going to go for it.

Since I have never had a doctor give me the air pressure setting I need as I have seen others discuss, it appeals to me to get the automatic CPAP model (APAP?). I honestly don't really trust that I can get the setting and study I need without a huge headache and expense. So, I would prefer a machine that does more. Am I correct in my thinking on that?

. . .

Thank you. I certainly seem to be feeling the effects. Tiredness, feeling out of breath at night and in the morning, memory loss, etc. Are those the typical signs? I've been reading that high blood pressure is a result. But, I have good blood pressure (nurse said "blood pressure of an 18 year old"). I sometimes surf 20 hours a week which isn't far off from doing a marathon or two. So, maybe that has masked some of the symptoms?

Hi wheaton4prez,
Welcome to the forum. You have found a great place to ask questions and get answers.

At the moment, you are a the critical point of choosing a machine. Since you have no sleep study results to go by, you are correct that an Auto machine makes the most sense for you now. All Auto machines can be configured to run as single-pressure CPAP machines, so you really have 2 machines in one. The second issue is to MAKE SURE you get a machine with full data capability. You will be at a severe disadvantage in attempting to manage your own therapy without the data.

Here is a link to an article about choosing machines:
http://www.apneaboard.com/wiki/index.php...ne_Choices

Here is another page of links to review BEFORE you pickup any machine:
http://www.apneaboard.com/wiki/index.php?title=Archangle:Links

Some Recommendations:
1) Study the machines and understand the array of choices. Pick the machine or machines you will accept, and don't allow the DME to pawn off some piece of junk on you (as some will do). If you don't know about the machine they want to give you, DON'T ACCEPT IT. It is much easier to change to a different machine before you have one, so there is no "exchange" issue to negotiate.

2) BE DETERMINED to get the machine you want and need. After all, you're going to live with it for the next 5 years, not the DME, who is only going to live with the effect on his bottom line this month. By next month, you'll be lucky if they remember your name. In some cases, you'll be luckier if they do forget your name.

3) Trust NOTHING of what the DME tells you - unless you already know what they are talking about. The level of ignorance and/or the willingness to lie of many DME's is legendary on this board. Unless you've been lurking here awhile, you will not have had time to read of some of the wretched practices of some of these people. Here is one thread illustrating this:
http://www.apneaboard.com/forums/Thread-...e-provider

4) You may be correct about the mask - if your nasal passages are too narrow to allow breathing comfort, a Full-face mask (FFM) may be simplest for you starting out. I used the ResMed Mirage Quattro at first, then switched to the F&P Simplus. Either mask is usable for me, but the Simplus is more comfortable.

5) Include the heated humidifier for whatever machine you choose. You can always choose not to turn on or connect it if you find you don't want or need it, but if you don't get it with the machine, it can be difficult later.

6) Just deal with getting the right gear for now. We are always here to help you once that hurdle is behind you.

Another personal opinion: If I were buying a spare machine today, I would get another S9 Autoset. I would avoid the Airsense 10 models, as they are a brand-new release, not much reported experience with them. Some very experienced members here have reported a negative experience compared to the S9 Autoset.

7) See if there is any way to obtain the reports or full data from your sleep study. It can be very useful in establishing a starting point for your settings. It is YOUR data and you are entitled to it. They can charge a copy fee for getting it from their archives, but usually not more.

Best luck and wishes on your journey.

A.Becker
PAPing in NE Ohio, with a pack of Cairn terriers
10-09-2014 05:49 PM
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wheaton4prez Offline

Members

Posts: 13
Joined: Oct 2014

Machine: Philips Remstar Auto AFlex DS560S
Mask Type: Full face mask
Mask Make & Model: Resmed Ultra Mirage FFM
Humidifier: None
CPAP Pressure: Auto (4-20)
CPAP Software: Not using software

Other Comments:

Sex: Male
Location:

Post: #48
RE: Dangers of Using a CPAP Machine
(10-09-2014 05:42 PM)archangle Wrote:  
(10-09-2014 02:51 PM)wheaton4prez Wrote:  I did a sleep study a few years ago mainly because my wife was worried about me stopping breathing at night. I didn't feel tired or anything at that time. But, after the study, the people at the place (who seemed like non-skilled, non-trained young workers to me) said that they "never find that anyone doesn't have sleep apnea." That, along with the place being covered with equipment marketing posters, materials, boxes, kiosks, etc. made me feel like it was all a scam. When I went back to the doctor, he said that I wasn't the first person to say that. So, I just dropped the issue entirely.

Unless they actually commit fraud, an apnea diagnosis is usually pretty clear cut. A trained monkey could look at the test results for most apneacs and tell they had apnea. It's pretty black and white, and, if anything, they classify some people as non-apneac who actually need CPAP. The profit on CPAP is not high enough to make them risk outright fraud.

As for never seeing anyone without apnea, there are a lot of signs of apnea that doctors can spot. I think doctors don't usually send people for sleep tests unless it's obvious that they have it. If anything, doctors probably fail to send a lot of people who have apnea for sleep tests. The sleep lab may very well only see a small number of patients who aren't actually apneacs.

From my perspective, if doctors can determine if someone has sleep apnea with such a high success rate that the sleep center has never seen a case of someone passing the test without apnea, having sleep study centers at all only confuses the issue.
10-09-2014 05:54 PM
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TorontoCPAPguy Offline

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Posts: 143
Joined: May 2012

Machine: S9 Autoset II
Mask Type: Full face mask
Mask Make & Model: Mirage Quattro FFM
Humidifier: H5i; Control III Germicide
CPAP Pressure: 12-20
CPAP Software: ResScan SleepyHead

Other Comments: CMS50EW Oximeter; Everflo Q O2 Concentrator; O2 Analyzer; Climate Control Hose (winter)

Sex: Male
Location: Toronto; Southern USA; etc.

Post: #49
RE: Dangers of Using a CPAP Machine
You have received some spot-on accurate advice in this thread. There is miniscule danger in use of a full face mask - however, from the sound of it, a full face mask, for you as for myself, is going to be the best route to go. My nose gets stuffy at the drop of a hat and I wind up mouth breathing.... the FFM addresses that more than adequately and no other mask does. FIT is of primary concern. PRIMARY CONCERN! I have been using the Mirage Quattro FFM for several years and we recently bought some medium size for my wife which turned out to be too large for her, so I tried on the one that she opened up. Lo and behold, I've been using large for several years thinking it was a perfect fit. N-O-T!!!! The medium was a much nicer fit and the large, being about aged out, are headed for the trash. The wife is using small size and fits perfect. Her AHI went from 85+ to under 5. Wow.

The other thing that you heard if you were paying attention was that the risks of NOT using CPAP/XPAP was (is) FAR far greater than the risk of using it. It is strongly associated with diabetes and heart arrhythmias. Ask me how I know.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Educate, Advocate, Contemplate.
Herein lies personal opinion, no professional advice, which ALL are well advised to seek.
10-09-2014 05:56 PM
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wheaton4prez Offline

Members

Posts: 13
Joined: Oct 2014

Machine: Philips Remstar Auto AFlex DS560S
Mask Type: Full face mask
Mask Make & Model: Resmed Ultra Mirage FFM
Humidifier: None
CPAP Pressure: Auto (4-20)
CPAP Software: Not using software

Other Comments:

Sex: Male
Location:

Post: #50
RE: Dangers of Using a CPAP Machine
(10-09-2014 05:49 PM)becker44a Wrote:  Best luck and wishes on your journey.

Thank you. This is really helpful.

I was already leaning toward the S9 Autoset based on articles/reviews here. What if they say that option is not available through them? Do I have to go back to my doctor to refer to someone else that carries it? What is a reasonable cost I should expect to pay for that model? The insurance company gave me an "estimated price" I would pay which implies that they have some kind of structured payout for the machines.

I'll try to get the sleep study data. But, I suspect that the device never got sent in and they couldn't figure out which one was mine after I started calling about it. I might be able to get the old data from a few years ago...
10-09-2014 06:07 PM
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