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Deep cycle marine battery backup questions. Please help.
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iSnore Offline

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Post: #11
RE: Dep cycle marine battery backup questions. Please help.
I'm guessing your bilevel, with humidification and heated hose, can draw as much as 6.5 amps x 8 hours = 52 AH/night. If your objective is to just get through one night and then go to an area where the motels have power if yours hasn't been restored, you can use as much as 75-80% of the battery charge (from 100% charge), so let's divide 52 AH by 0.75 to get the requirement for a 70 AH battery. I'd shoot for a 75-80AH Group 24 size for a bit of cushion. If you want a second day, you can wire a second battery in parallel (positive to positive, negative to negative).

Since fast recharging for a multi-day outage isn't a requirement, you can get buy with a Deltran Battery Tender Jr. (I own three; the original, the Jr, and the marine version). However, if you have a neighbor willing to loan you a generator for a few hours a day, a minimum-sized battery and a Battery Tender won't do you much good. With a charger rated about 20% to 25% of the battery's AH rating in amps, you can get to about 80% charged in a few hours. Battery charging isn't linear and it can take as long to go from 80% to 100% as it would from 20% to 80%. You'll want to size the battery to use 60% of it (from 80% down to 20%). So your 52 AH/0.6 = 87AH battery. For this scenario, I'd go for 100 AH Group 27 for a bit of cushion, with a 20-25 amp 3-stage marine or RV charger.

Besides the Group 27/100 AH AGM on the backup sump-pump, we have two in the RV, a Group 24/75 AH in the sailboat, and smaller Universal Battery brand scooter size or smaller. We also have two Honda EU2000i generators to power the 3-stage chargers in the RV and sailboat, as well as a multipurpose portable 3-stage 10 amp charger. A smaller EU1000i generator would be adequate for daily backup recharging.

Hope this helps. Keep in mind you can go about three times longer with the humidifier and heat off.
04-09-2015 08:08 PM
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Mark Douglas Offline

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Post: #12
RE: Dep cycle marine battery backup questions. Please help.
(04-09-2015 04:50 PM)JVinNE Wrote:  I would like to be able to use my heated humidifier if the power is out in winter. That's why I'm thinking about the marine battery. Not sure yet about that, but I get dry mouth, as I use a FFM, and if my nose is stuffy...

JVinNE I have debilitating sinus problems and I fully understand your desire to run the humidifier.
A days missed work and/or a trip to an MD is gonna cost you what? A 125 AH AGM battery can be had for about $250. Figure your cost Bennett ratio and do what's best for you. What odds do you wanna play?

I still think you ought go to the marine or RV sites and learn about how many amps you can actually pull from a battery. On a marine site look up "house batteries" gain a solid understanding of the subject. Usable power is a lot less than the AH rating if you want to keep the the battery healthy for a long time. Longest I have had to deal with a power outage was 5 days after a hurricane. Another option is you can get a really great little 2 cycle gennie for less than $100. I have one and it is quite reliable and actually pretty quiet and easy on fuel. Mix up some fuel with a stabilizer and you then have a way to recharge a smaller battery and as AGM have a high charge acceptance charge time would not be unreasonable.

My 2 cents.

I just saw iSnore's reply.
Great minds think alike!

I use my PAP machine nightly and I feel great!
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(This post was last modified: 04-09-2015 08:46 PM by Mark Douglas.)
04-09-2015 08:34 PM
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OMyMyOHellYes Offline

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Post: #13
RE: Dep cycle marine battery backup questions. Please help.
About the only way you are going to short the battery out is to cross both terminals simultaneously with a piece of metal. To prevent short in anything you hook up to it, you can (and should) ensure that the wiring you put on the battery has a fuse to protect it. Amp rating depends on how much you can determine on how much current your machine draws in the configuration you intend to use it in.
04-09-2015 09:17 PM
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justMongo Offline

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Post: #14
RE: Dep cycle marine battery backup questions. Please help.
(04-09-2015 09:17 PM)OMyMyOHellYes Wrote:  About the only way you are going to short the battery out is to cross both terminals simultaneously with a piece of metal. To prevent short in anything you hook up to it, you can (and should) ensure that the wiring you put on the battery has a fuse to protect it. Amp rating depends on how much you can determine on how much current your machine draws in the configuration you intend to use it in.

The latest Deltran's are polarity protected. So, it's hard to mess that up. If you go with the scooter battery, you can use the ring terminal cable that comes with the Deltran to connect to the battery via screws.

I had in mind the accidental dropping of something like a metal rod across the terminals -- yes, I have some odd things in my room. Like suppose I'm cleaning my Glock; and I drop my cleaning rod onto the battery.

If you have kids or pets, make sure they cannot get close to it.

(When I was about 5, I plugged a length of my electric train track into a 120V outlet -- so, naturally, I became a EE when I grew up!)

INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.
04-09-2015 11:28 PM
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JVinNE Offline

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Post: #15
RE: Dep cycle marine battery backup questions. Please help.
(04-09-2015 11:28 PM)justMongo Wrote:  
(04-09-2015 09:17 PM)OMyMyOHellYes Wrote:  About the only way you are going to short the battery out is to cross both terminals simultaneously with a piece of metal. To prevent short in anything you hook up to it, you can (and should) ensure that the wiring you put on the battery has a fuse to protect it. Amp rating depends on how much you can determine on how much current your machine draws in the configuration you intend to use it in.

The latest Deltran's are polarity protected. So, it's hard to mess that up. If you go with the scooter battery, you can use the ring terminal cable that comes with the Deltran to connect to the battery via screws.

I had in mind the accidental dropping of something like a metal rod across the terminals -- yes, I have some odd things in my room. Like suppose I'm cleaning my Glock; and I drop my cleaning rod onto the battery.

If you have kids or pets, make sure they cannot get close to it.

(When I was about 5, I plugged a length of my electric train track into a 120V outlet -- so, naturally, I became a EE when I grew up!)

No kids, no pets.


(04-09-2015 08:34 PM)Mark Douglas Wrote:  
(04-09-2015 04:50 PM)JVinNE Wrote:  I would like to be able to use my heated humidifier if the power is out in winter. That's why I'm thinking about the marine battery. Not sure yet about that, but I get dry mouth, as I use a FFM, and if my nose is stuffy...

JVinNE I have debilitating sinus problems and I fully understand your desire to run the humidifier.
A days missed work and/or a trip to an MD is gonna cost you what? A 125 AH AGM battery can be had for about $250. Figure your cost Bennett ratio and do what's best for you. What odds do you wanna play?

I still think you ought go to the marine or RV sites and learn about how many amps you can actually pull from a battery. On a marine site look up "house batteries" gain a solid understanding of the subject. Usable power is a lot less than the AH rating if you want to keep the the battery healthy for a long time. Longest I have had to deal with a power outage was 5 days after a hurricane. Another option is you can get a really great little 2 cycle gennie for less than $100. I have one and it is quite reliable and actually pretty quiet and easy on fuel. Mix up some fuel with a stabilizer and you then have a way to recharge a smaller battery and as AGM have a high charge acceptance charge time would not be unreasonable.

My 2 cents.

I just saw iSnore's reply.
Great minds think alike!

Can't run a gennie here. Sad
(This post was last modified: 04-10-2015 09:01 AM by JVinNE.)
04-10-2015 09:00 AM
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JVinNE Offline

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Post: #16
RE: Dep cycle marine battery backup questions. Please help.
(04-09-2015 08:08 PM)iSnore Wrote:  I'm guessing your bilevel, with humidification and heated hose, can draw as much as 6.5 amps x 8 hours = 52 AH/night. If your objective is to just get through one night and then go to an area where the motels have power if yours hasn't been restored, you can use as much as 75-80% of the battery charge (from 100% charge), so let's divide 52 AH by 0.75 to get the requirement for a 70 AH battery. I'd shoot for a 75-80AH Group 24 size for a bit of cushion. If you want a second day, you can wire a second battery in parallel (positive to positive, negative to negative).

Since fast recharging for a multi-day outage isn't a requirement, you can get buy with a Deltran Battery Tender Jr. (I own three; the original, the Jr, and the marine version). However, if you have a neighbor willing to loan you a generator for a few hours a day, a minimum-sized battery and a Battery Tender won't do you much good. With a charger rated about 20% to 25% of the battery's AH rating in amps, you can get to about 80% charged in a few hours. Battery charging isn't linear and it can take as long to go from 80% to 100% as it would from 20% to 80%. You'll want to size the battery to use 60% of it (from 80% down to 20%). So your 52 AH/0.6 = 87AH battery. For this scenario, I'd go for 100 AH Group 27 for a bit of cushion, with a 20-25 amp 3-stage marine or RV charger.

Besides the Group 27/100 AH AGM on the backup sump-pump, we have two in the RV, a Group 24/75 AH in the sailboat, and smaller Universal Battery brand scooter size or smaller. We also have two Honda EU2000i generators to power the 3-stage chargers in the RV and sailboat, as well as a multipurpose portable 3-stage 10 amp charger. A smaller EU1000i generator would be adequate for daily backup recharging.

Hope this helps. Keep in mind you can go about three times longer with the humidifier and heat off.

I will keep that in mind, thank you.
04-10-2015 09:03 AM
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JVinNE Offline

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Post: #17
RE: Dep cycle marine battery backup questions. Please help.
(04-09-2015 05:59 PM)GeoffD Wrote:  I just went through this.

The big power suck on a CPAP machine is the function that generates heat. The ClimateLine hose and the humidifier. The blower that pressurizes the air isn't too bad.

You need three things for power failure backup power with a ResMed 10 machine.
1- The DC-DC power converter
2- A battery charger
3- A battery

You've already been given the part number for the ResMed DC-DC power converter for the machine. Google search on "resmed 37297". You will find several venders who will sell you one for sub-$90.00. Pick the one that has free shipping. If you click on all the web sites, you may find one with a free shipping promo or a discount for new customers. 12 volt systems like Phillips Respironics can use a much cheaper power cord instead of the DC-DC converter.

The battery charger is cheap. For a power failure machine, you don't need one that can charge the battery quickly. You want one that acts as a battery tender so the battery is kept topped off. I bought a "Battery Tender Jr" on Amazon Prime for $27.00. I noticed that Walmart also carries it for the same price. It's 0.75 amps so it will take a few days to fully charge a bigger battery. For power outages, that isn't particularly important. You can spend more and get a charger that puts out more current to charge the battery faster but it's unlikely you'd ever need to care. I happen to own a "real" battery charger that can charge at 3 amps and 10 amps. You can always borrow one if you have that strange circumstance where you need to quickly recharge the battery. In theory, you can leave the battery tender plugged in all the time. I prefer to top the battery up once per month.

I went with a 35 amp-hour AGM wheelchair/scooter battery. I found one on Amazon for $63.00. ML35-12 Mighty Max Battery. It's small but it weighs 25 pounds. With the humidifier and ClimateLine heated hose disabled, your machine is likely to draw about 1 amp at 12 volts. The higher your pressure, the more current it draws. Assuming you can draw down an AGM battery to 20%, you have about 28 amp-hours usable in the battery. At 1 amp, that is 3 nights. If you use the heated hose and the humidifier, you'll barely get 1 night.

I own a boat. Beware that marine deep cycle batteries really aren't the best thing to use. AGM batteries don't leak battery acid if you happen to break the case. That's kind of a big deal in your bedroom. AGM batteries also discharge more. A car battery can fail completely if you discharge it more than 60%. They're designed to provide a lot of current to start the car. If you discharge them too much, they don't come back. A marine deep cycle battery is often a hybrid. It's designed to push enough current to start the engine but it's also able to be discharged more. Stick with Absorbed Glass Mat.

Another thing you probably want is a way to measure battery voltage. With a lead-acid battery, a fully charged battery puts out 12.7 volts. You don't want to run it down much below 12 volts. For $2.80 on Amazon, you can buy a cheap cigarette lighter digital voltmeter. Search on "Mini LED Display Digital Car Voltmeter 12V/24V Vehicle Voltage Gauge".

So you can get a power failure setup for a bit less than $190.00. Somebody with a 12 volt machine could do it $50+ cheaper. You could lug it with you in a car or on a boat but it's not really "portable".

Another thing to be aware of.... The battery backup document ResMed wrote doesn't come out and say it but you can't run an AirSense 10 off of an inverter. That means that you can't use most generators.

Thank you, Geoff.
04-10-2015 09:07 AM
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justMongo Offline

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Post: #18
RE: Dep cycle marine battery backup questions. Please help.
Something to consider for power outages that might last days.
You can get a 100 Watt solar charger for under $200. With good sunlight, it can bring the charge on a 50 A-Hr, 50% discharged battery, to full charge in 3 hours.

INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.
04-10-2015 09:42 AM
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JVinNE Offline

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Post: #19
RE: Deep cycle marine battery backup questions. Please help.
I meant to title this "deep" cycle.
04-10-2015 09:45 AM
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JVinNE Offline

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Machine: ResMed Aircurve 10 ASV Bilevel
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Post: #20
RE: Dep cycle marine battery backup questions. Please help.
(04-10-2015 09:42 AM)justMongo Wrote:  Something to consider for power outages that might last days.
You can get a 100 Watt solar charger for under $200. With good sunlight, it can bring the charge on a 50 A-Hr, 50% discharged battery, to full charge in 3 hours.

Or I could just buy two batteries and tenders. Not a heck of a lot of sun in New England at times. Smile
04-10-2015 09:59 AM
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