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Deep cycle marine battery backup questions. Please help.
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OMyMyOHellYes Offline

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Post: #21
RE: Dep cycle marine battery backup questions. Please help.
(04-10-2015 09:59 AM)JVinNE Wrote:  
(04-10-2015 09:42 AM)justMongo Wrote:  Something to consider for power outages that might last days.
You can get a 100 Watt solar charger for under $200. With good sunlight, it can bring the charge on a 50 A-Hr, 50% discharged battery, to full charge in 3 hours.

Or I could just buy two batteries and tenders. Not a heck of a lot of sun in New England at times. Smile

You don't need two battery tenders. The battery is not going to discharge all by itself (well, it will, but not quickly). One is fine. I charge three batteries off of one BatteryTender: I hook it up to each one on the first day f each month and that topping charge takes less than an hour each. So they in no way lose much of the charge through a month or two.

Power out, I run my CPAP without heated humidification (maybe still using the passive, non-heated humidification properties - hell, on the PR system one, I have completely turned off the heating element and jut go passive anyway-the lowest heating setting is too much in classic mode).

three 35 AH batteries will easily get me through at least two weeks straight without recharge. I expect three. And no, I don't think you would hurt the batteries by running them into discharge. The CPAP would likely cut off at low voltage before you get to that level.

OMMOHY
04-10-2015 10:46 AM
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OMyMyOHellYes Offline

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Machine: Respironics 560 Auto
Mask Type: Nasal mask
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CPAP Software: EncoreBasic

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Sex: Male
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Post: #22
RE: Dep cycle marine battery backup questions. Please help.
(04-09-2015 11:28 PM)justMongo Wrote:  I had in mind the accidental dropping of something like a metal rod across the terminals -- yes, I have some odd things in my room. Like suppose I'm cleaning my Glock; and I drop my cleaning rod onto the battery.


Grocks can be cleaned? I mean, other than just throwing it in the dishwasher with the rest of the Tupperware?

Laugh-a-lot

OMMOHY
04-10-2015 10:49 AM
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JVinNE Offline

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Post: #23
RE: Dep cycle marine battery backup questions. Please help.
(04-10-2015 10:46 AM)OMyMyOHellYes Wrote:  
(04-10-2015 09:59 AM)JVinNE Wrote:  
(04-10-2015 09:42 AM)justMongo Wrote:  Something to consider for power outages that might last days.
You can get a 100 Watt solar charger for under $200. With good sunlight, it can bring the charge on a 50 A-Hr, 50% discharged battery, to full charge in 3 hours.

Or I could just buy two batteries and tenders. Not a heck of a lot of sun in New England at times. Smile

You don't need two battery tenders. The battery is not going to discharge all by itself (well, it will, but not quickly). One is fine. I charge three batteries off of one BatteryTender: I hook it up to each one on the first day f each month and that topping charge takes less than an hour each. So they in no way lose much of the charge through a month or two.

Power out, I run my CPAP without heated humidification (maybe still using the passive, non-heated humidification properties - hell, on the PR system one, I have completely turned off the heating element and jut go passive anyway-the lowest heating setting is too much in classic mode).

three 35 AH batteries will easily get me through at least two weeks straight without recharge. I expect three. And no, I don't think you would hurt the batteries by running them into discharge. The CPAP would likely cut off at low voltage before you get to that level.

OMMOHY

That works, and thanks again for the help. I'm curious, do I have to add water to this battery or just charge it?
04-10-2015 02:07 PM
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archangle Offline
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Post: #24
RE: Dep cycle marine battery backup questions. Please help.
(04-09-2015 01:17 PM)Mark Douglas Wrote:  Short version You could use an AGM battery and probably never have a problem. You would have to overcharge it pretty hard to make it vent. Be sure you get a charger programed for AGM and for your use will probably last at least 10 yrs. Overcharging and under charging are mostly what kill batteries.

Other than being unspillable, AGM/gel cell/sealed lead acid batteries don't have many advantages. To simplify, let's use the term "SLA" Sealed Lead Acid, which covers all the above batteries. SLA batteries cost a lot more and don't necessarily last longer.

For a flooded cell (standard non SLA) battery, you do have to add water occasionally. If you have the right charger, you won't have to add more often than every 6 months or so. I've had excellent luck over many years with the Schumacher SE-1-12s charger with deep cycle marine batteries.

Modern flooded cell batteries need water a lot less often than older batteries did.

A SLA is the same chemistry as a flooded cell battery, except that it has a pressurized case that helps combine a small amount of hydrogen and oxygen back into water such that you don't have to add water. A SLA will vent hydrogen and oxygen if you overcharge and generate hydrogen and oxygen too quickly.

I'm beginning to think that even a "deep cycle" battery is unnecessary for CPAP backup unless you have a lot of outages. I'm doing some online research, but it seems that even a car starting battery will survive a few dozen deep discharge cycles, and for CPAP usage, you probably don't get a deep discharge unless you have an outage of more than one night. How often do you have more than 24 hours power outage. Also, realize that even a good battery, well maintained, wears out every 7 years or so.

However, a deep cycle flooded cell isn't that much more expensive and they are probably a bit more resistant to charging abuse.

Get the free SleepyHead software here.
Useful links.
Click here for information on the main alternative to CPAP.
If it's midnight and a DME tells you it's dark outside, go and check it yourself.
04-10-2015 03:27 PM
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Mark Douglas Offline

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Post: #25
RE: Deep cycle marine battery backup questions. Please help.
Having lived on a sailboat and forced to deal with a house bank I tried to give an idea where to look w/o over doing it but certainly a maintainable battery has its advantages. T-100s are everywhere and probably the most bang for the buck.

I use my PAP machine nightly and I feel great!
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04-10-2015 03:40 PM
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archangle Offline
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Post: #26
RE: Deep cycle marine battery backup questions. Please help.
I and my dad have probably taken at least 10 deep cycle flooded cell marine batteries from cradle to grave.

I usually get about 5-7 years on each battery as long as I use the Schumacher SE-1-12S charger. Some other "trickle/maintenance" batteries have either boiled the water away quickly or even ruined a battery.

For extra safety, sometimes, I get a one week mechanical outlet timer and set it to charge the battery for 8 hours or so one day a week. That way, if the charger "loses its mind," it gets reset once a week, and only gets to overcharge the battery for 8 hours a week instead of 168 hours a week.

Even without the timer, I still tend to get 5-7 years out of the battery.

I haven't used the battery tender or battery minder in this fashion, so I can't say they're bad. I also don't have confidence in other Schumacher chargers for 24/7 connection. I'm particularly skeptical of the "fast charge" battery chargers that put out 6-10 amps to charge and then drop back to a "maintenance, trickle, or float" charge. If it's connected 24/7, it only has to "get confused" once every few years to ruin a battery that would normally have had many more years of life in it.

Get the free SleepyHead software here.
Useful links.
Click here for information on the main alternative to CPAP.
If it's midnight and a DME tells you it's dark outside, go and check it yourself.
04-10-2015 05:04 PM
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JVinNE Offline

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Post: #27
RE: Dep cycle marine battery backup questions. Please help.
(04-10-2015 03:27 PM)archangle Wrote:  
(04-09-2015 01:17 PM)Mark Douglas Wrote:  Short version You could use an AGM battery and probably never have a problem. You would have to overcharge it pretty hard to make it vent. Be sure you get a charger programed for AGM and for your use will probably last at least 10 yrs. Overcharging and under charging are mostly what kill batteries.

Other than being unspillable, AGM/gel cell/sealed lead acid batteries don't have many advantages. To simplify, let's use the term "SLA" Sealed Lead Acid, which covers all the above batteries. SLA batteries cost a lot more and don't necessarily last longer.

For a flooded cell (standard non SLA) battery, you do have to add water occasionally. If you have the right charger, you won't have to add more often than every 6 months or so. I've had excellent luck over many years with the Schumacher SE-1-12s charger with deep cycle marine batteries.

Modern flooded cell batteries need water a lot less often than older batteries did.

A SLA is the same chemistry as a flooded cell battery, except that it has a pressurized case that helps combine a small amount of hydrogen and oxygen back into water such that you don't have to add water. A SLA will vent hydrogen and oxygen if you overcharge and generate hydrogen and oxygen too quickly.

I'm beginning to think that even a "deep cycle" battery is unnecessary for CPAP backup unless you have a lot of outages. I'm doing some online research, but it seems that even a car starting battery will survive a few dozen deep discharge cycles, and for CPAP usage, you probably don't get a deep discharge unless you have an outage of more than one night. How often do you have more than 24 hours power outage. Also, realize that even a good battery, well maintained, wears out every 7 years or so.

However, a deep cycle flooded cell isn't that much more expensive and they are probably a bit more resistant to charging abuse.

Even for an ASV?
04-10-2015 05:16 PM
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archangle Offline
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Post: #28
RE: Dep cycle marine battery backup questions. Please help.
(04-10-2015 05:16 PM)JVinNE Wrote:  Even for an ASV?

Which particular question are you asking "even for an ASV" about?

ASV's draw more power and may need a larger battery, but how many nights a year do you expect to have to use it all night long?

Get the free SleepyHead software here.
Useful links.
Click here for information on the main alternative to CPAP.
If it's midnight and a DME tells you it's dark outside, go and check it yourself.
04-10-2015 05:39 PM
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JVinNE Offline

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Machine: ResMed Aircurve 10 ASV Bilevel
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CPAP Pressure: Min EPAP 5 Max IPAP 13 PS 1-2
CPAP Software: SleepyHead

Other Comments: New, ASV Barbie, now with morning fart action.

Sex: Female
Location: New England

Post: #29
RE: Dep cycle marine battery backup questions. Please help.
(04-10-2015 05:39 PM)archangle Wrote:  
(04-10-2015 05:16 PM)JVinNE Wrote:  Even for an ASV?

Which particular question are you asking "even for an ASV" about?

ASV's draw more power and may need a larger battery, but how many nights a year do you expect to have to use it all night long?

If there is a hurricane, 3 nights estimate, and snow storm, 2-3. There is the occasional day without power in summer; if something happens on the grid. I should keep my battery on the work table in the basement, because it's cooler down there, and the only room that has AirCon, is my bedroom. The house is a few blocks from a beach.

archangle, what do you think of this battery? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z11arnAhw7M
(This post was last modified: 04-11-2015 10:33 AM by JVinNE.)
04-11-2015 09:43 AM
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JVinNE Offline

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Machine: ResMed Aircurve 10 ASV Bilevel
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CPAP Pressure: Min EPAP 5 Max IPAP 13 PS 1-2
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Other Comments: New, ASV Barbie, now with morning fart action.

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Post: #30
RE: Deep cycle marine battery backup questions. Please help.
Added new comment to previous comment. Tried to delete this.
(This post was last modified: 04-11-2015 10:33 AM by JVinNE.)
04-11-2015 09:56 AM
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