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Diabetic PAPers
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MobileBasset Offline

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Posts: 198
Joined: May 2015

Machine: ResMed AIRCURVE 10 V Auto
Mask Type: Nasal mask
Mask Make & Model: Fisher Paykel Zest
Humidifier: Integrated
CPAP Pressure: 10 (minE 6,maxI 12, PS 3)
CPAP Software: ResScan SleepyHead Other Software

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Sex: Female
Location: Florida

Post: #1
Diabetic PAPers
The PAP users on this forum are motivated, disciplined, persistent people who have, in many cases, worked through a lot of discomfort to come out the other side and achieve effective therapy.

It occurred to me that this type of person might also see the promise in a nutritional way of addressing their diabetes, a condition which is common among PAPers. I do not have diabetes and the only reason I do not is because I follow a nutritional plan designed by Dr Joel Fuhrman, whose book "The End of Diabetes" explains the whys and how's. This program brought me back very quickly from a pre-diabetic condition and has resulted in significant weight loss over time and a general well being. As we know, in some cases the weight loss will allow PAP setting reduction. The plan also addresses type I diabetes in the sense that it results in stabilization and reduction of the required insulin dose.

I will not proselytize and only want to present this option to those who are unaware of Dr Fuhrman's nutritional science. It requires motivation, discipline, and persistence but guarantees success. It is not for everyone and often raises the same vehement resistance the CPAP machine does.

if you can't decide then you don't have enough data.
(This post was last modified: 10-10-2015 10:17 AM by MobileBasset.)
10-10-2015 10:16 AM
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49er Offline

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Posts: 237
Joined: Apr 2012

Machine: VPAP-S
Mask Type: Nasal mask
Mask Make & Model: Sleep Weaver Elan Soft Cloth Nasal Mask
Humidifier: H5i
CPAP Pressure: 13.6/9.6
CPAP Software: SleepyHead

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Sex: Undisclosed
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Post: #2
RE: Diabetic PAPers
(10-10-2015 10:16 AM)MobileBasset Wrote:  The PAP users on this forum are motivated, disciplined, persistent people who have, in many cases, worked through a lot of discomfort to come out the other side and achieve effective therapy.

It occurred to me that this type of person might also see the promise in a nutritional way of addressing their diabetes, a condition which is common among PAPers. I do not have diabetes and the only reason I do not is because I follow a nutritional plan designed by Dr Joel Fuhrman, whose book "The End of Diabetes" explains the whys and how's. This program brought me back very quickly from a pre-diabetic condition and has resulted in significant weight loss over time and a general well being. As we know, in some cases the weight loss will allow PAP setting reduction. The plan also addresses type I diabetes in the sense that it results in stabilization and reduction of the required insulin dose.

I will not proselytize and only want to present this option to those who are unaware of Dr Fuhrman's nutritional science. It requires motivation, discipline, and persistence but guarantees success. It is not for everyone and often raises the same vehement resistance the CPAP machine does.

Hi MobileBassett,

Congratulations on your success. How does this diet compare to the Paleo/High Ketogenic/Low Carb diets that many people with diabetes/pre diabetes have sworn by? I tried searching Dr. Fuhrman's site but might have missed something.

Because I was concerned about having pre diabetes and for other reasons, I have been doing a Ketogenic type diet. Haven't measured my blood sugar recently but a few days ago, at mid day, it was 79. It has never been that low.

I just wish I could get a good friend with diabetes to at least start using the meter to see how it effects the foods she eats blood sugar wise. She has horrible figures but the medical outfit she is affiliated with thinks she is doing great. A big fat sigh.
10-10-2015 10:58 AM
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MobileBasset Offline

Advisory Members

Posts: 198
Joined: May 2015

Machine: ResMed AIRCURVE 10 V Auto
Mask Type: Nasal mask
Mask Make & Model: Fisher Paykel Zest
Humidifier: Integrated
CPAP Pressure: 10 (minE 6,maxI 12, PS 3)
CPAP Software: ResScan SleepyHead Other Software

Other Comments:

Sex: Female
Location: Florida

Post: #3
RE: Diabetic PAPers
49er,
Yes, people I know refuse to use their PAP and refuse to change their diet. I have learned to let them be, and I also sigh.

Dr Fuhrman's nutritional plan is very different that the ones you mention. It is usually called "Eat to Live" (also the name of his most heralded book - on the New York Times Best Seller List for years) and is 100% dedicated to providing all necessary and helpful nutrition and minimizing toxicity. It does not discriminate among macronutrient groups (protein, carbohydrates, fat). If you find his book "End of Diabetes" on Amazon and read the reviews you may get a feel. He has many books. This latest book is just his hallmark plan with a lot of specialized discussion and science directed at the specific issues of diabetes.

One really needs to read it for themselves and think. That is why I say it is not for everyone. Only a subset of people are willing to read and think. And then act.

if you can't decide then you don't have enough data.
10-10-2015 11:39 AM
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49er Offline

Advisory Members

Posts: 237
Joined: Apr 2012

Machine: VPAP-S
Mask Type: Nasal mask
Mask Make & Model: Sleep Weaver Elan Soft Cloth Nasal Mask
Humidifier: H5i
CPAP Pressure: 13.6/9.6
CPAP Software: SleepyHead

Other Comments:

Sex: Undisclosed
Location:

Post: #4
RE: Diabetic PAPers
(10-10-2015 11:39 AM)MobileBasset Wrote:  49er,
Yes, people I know refuse to use their PAP and refuse to change their diet. I have learned to let them be, and I also sigh.

Dr Fuhrman's nutritional plan is very different that the ones you mention. It is usually called "Eat to Live" (also the name of his most heralded book - on the New York Times Best Seller List for years) and is 100% dedicated to providing all necessary and helpful nutrition and minimizing toxicity. It does not discriminate among macronutrient groups (protein, carbohydrates, fat). If you find his book "End of Diabetes" on Amazon and read the reviews you may get a feel. He has many books. This latest book is just his hallmark plan with a lot of specialized discussion and science directed at the specific issues of diabetes.

One really needs to read it for themselves and think. That is why I say it is not for everyone. Only a subset of people are willing to read and think. And then act.

I will take a look MB, thanks.
10-10-2015 11:44 AM
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justMongo Offline

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Joined: Sep 2013

Machine: ResMed VPAP Auto (S9)
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CPAP Pressure: 18 IPAPmax - 11 EPAPmin, PS=5
CPAP Software: Other Software

Other Comments: μολὼν λαβέ

Sex: Male
Location: Калифорния

Post: #5
RE: Diabetic PAPers
My physician, who retired in 2012, handed out statins like candy. Why? Because that was the standard of care his peers would expect.
Since retiring, he's not a fan of statins. And, he says it more about inflammation. He likes what David Perlmutter has written.
Perlmutter claims grains are the big source of inflammation.

I'm trying to go Paleo; but, darn it's expensive to eat that way.

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10-10-2015 12:50 PM
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OMyMyOHellYes Online

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CPAP Software: EncoreBasic

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Post: #6
RE: Diabetic PAPers
(10-10-2015 12:50 PM)justMongo Wrote:  I'm trying to go Paleo; but, darn it's expensive to eat that way.

I'm understanding that mammoth meat is pricey ....


OMMOHY
10-10-2015 04:50 PM
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grumbledore Offline

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Joined: Oct 2015

Machine: ResMed Airsense 10 Autoset
Mask Type: Nasal pillows
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CPAP Pressure: 6.6
CPAP Software: SleepyHead

Other Comments: Type 1 diabetes (LADA)

Sex: Male
Location: Mississippi

Post: #7
RE: Diabetic PAPers
(10-10-2015 04:50 PM)OMyMyOHellYes Wrote:  
(10-10-2015 12:50 PM)justMongo Wrote:  I'm trying to go Paleo; but, darn it's expensive to eat that way.

I'm understanding that mammoth meat is pricey ....


OMMOHY

...but Fruity Pebbles is reasonable. Laugh-a-lot
10-10-2015 05:11 PM
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eseedhouse Offline

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Other Comments: Also on supplemental O2 at 3L/min. while sleeping.

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Location: Victoria, British Columbia

Post: #8
RE: Diabetic PAPers
Actually the so-called "Paleo" diet is not based on what actual Paleolithic humans ate according to the available evidence, which is pretty thin anyway. People ate grains well before 10,000 years ago for example.

Most so-called "diets" have very little evidence behind them and very little or no evidence that they actually work in the long term. The ones that do so in the short term do so by restricting calories (even the ones that say they don't), but there is only so long a normal human being can stay hungry.

Ed Seedhouse
VA7SDH

I am neither a Doctor, nor any other kind of medical professional.

Actually you know, it is what it isn't.
10-10-2015 05:43 PM
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grumbledore Offline

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Machine: ResMed Airsense 10 Autoset
Mask Type: Nasal pillows
Mask Make & Model: ResMed AirFit P10
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CPAP Pressure: 6.6
CPAP Software: SleepyHead

Other Comments: Type 1 diabetes (LADA)

Sex: Male
Location: Mississippi

Post: #9
RE: Diabetic PAPers
I have LADA (type 1, adult onset), eat pretty much vegetarian, and have an HbA1c of 5.4%. Oddly, since developing OSA about 3 months ago, which is still untreated, I haven't noticed any change in my daily blood glucose ranges. Sure, I feel like !@#$%* during most of the day, but that doesn't seem to have affected my BG, thankfully.
I've found that a diabetic diet is not really any different from a normal decent diet; enjoy a reasonable balance of food types, lots of whole grains, veggies and fruits, go easy on refined carbs, and eat 4-5 small meals each day. Most of my carbs I get at breakfast with the evening meal being the smallest. I have found no need for fads or anything fancy, but ya gotta go with what works for you.
As for whole grains, I've learned that whole grain rye, red cargo rice, and sweet black rice (which isn't at all sweet) suit me well; I've developed an aversion to whole wheat because it makes me nauseous for some reason. So I don't think "grains" are inherently evil, but just that some folks may not tolerate certain types of grains well.
10-10-2015 05:58 PM
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kdmorris410 Offline

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Post: #10
RE: Diabetic PAPers
I found out I had T2 Diabetes almost exactly 13 years ago. I have a real problem with people that want to charge you money for "miracle" diets.

There's no miracle cure. There's just "control it as well as you are able".

1) Eat a balanced meal and limit your carbs to fiber rich foods - fruit instead of juice, whole grain bread instead of white, etc. Limit the number of carbs you eat in one sitting.
2) Test often to determine how foods affect your blood sugar and make changes accordingly.
3) MOVE. Exercise as much as you are able and be active the rest of the time. Park on the other side of the parking lot.

I limit carbs to < 35 breakfast, < 40 lunch, < 40 dinner and < 15 snacks. I didn't buy an expensive book to do this. I analyzed everything and used it to help me control it.

I take metformin and a small amount of basal insulin to assist. Medications are NOT a failure, just as CPAP is not a failure of your ability to control your sleep apnea.

My last HbA1c was 5.3, my cholesterol is 179 with my HDL = 95. I ride my bike 5 days a week for 45 minutes and walk my sons around on the weekends for about an hour @3.8 mph. I take the stairs when I can and walk across the parking lot, even if there is a closer spot.

So, yeah... I'm not spending a ton of money on some "expert" telling me what I should do in a "one size fits all, you should do this way" manner. We are all individuals and that approach never works... just like there is not a single mask that works for us all.

I'm glad it worked for you, but I think I'll skip it.
10-13-2015 12:56 PM
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