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[Diagnosis] Are there any APAP Machines that record SLEEP HOURS
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jn20info Offline

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Location: Brisbane, Australia

Post: #1
Are there any APAP Machines that record SLEEP HOURS
I have googled all main branded APAP's, but are yet to find an APAP machine, that records your Sleep therapy statistics, based on actual SLEEP hours. The majority base their sleep therapy statistics, on compliance hours, which of course is subject to statistical error. Example: Apnea patients with insomnia. Last night, I lay awake for 8 hours.
Resulting statistics, show I had a perfect AHI score for 8 hours. Duhhhhh! Difficult to have an Apnea event, when you are wide awake.
OK. the former example is extreme, and you would know that you are awake. But what about Apnea patients (me), who are woken up, by the need to pee, up to 4 times, per night. I do NOT fall to sleep immediately, when re-hooking up to my APAP machine. I may fall to sleep in 15 mins, 30 mins, 60 mins, etc. Quite often, I experience as low as 2-4 hours of sleep, for 8 hours of compliance, hence the therapy statistics are totally inaccurate, as they are based on compliance hours, NOT Sleep hours. Anybody know of brand, exact models, that record actual sleep hours & the associated, resulting, accurate sleep therapy statistics, based on SLEEP hours, NOT compliance hours. Many of the main branded APAP Machines use wording "records sleep hours", but when you download the clinician MANUAL, it is actually compliance hours being recorded. I understand that Sleep therapy software, can analyse your breathing patterns & record & report actual sleep hours. However, this is NOT, what I'm requesting. Rather, I want to see the correct sleep therapy statistics (based on SLEEP hours), displayed on the machines LCD panel? Why would "SLEEP therapy", be based on COMPLIANCE hours, anyhow? Makes no sense! Please include Bi-level, APAP & ASV machines, as my sleep software, shows that the majority of my apneas, have become "Central" (Since loosing weight, and coming down from a therapy Mean pressure of "8" to "4".
(This post was last modified: 02-11-2016 06:49 PM by jn20info.)
02-11-2016 06:05 PM
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0rangebear Offline

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Post: #2
RE: Are there any APAP Machines that record SLEEP HOURS
I actually have the opposite problem. When I lay awake unable to sleep with my APAP machine it actually show significant higher AHI than when I sleep through entire use period.

When I use Sleepyhead to do analysis. I see multiple apnea events at the beginning and end of each night that occur before I got to sleep and after I wake up.

This doesn't give me any confidence in the Data
02-11-2016 06:13 PM
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wolson Offline

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Post: #3
RE: Are there any APAP Machines that record SLEEP HOURS
(02-11-2016 06:05 PM)jn20info Wrote:  I have googled all main branded APAP's, but are yet to find an APAP machine, that records your Sleep therapy statistics, on actual SLEEP hours. The majority base their statistics on compliance hours, which is subject to statistical error. Example: Apnea patients with insomnia. Last night, I lay awake for 8 hours. Resulting statistics, show I had a perfect AHI score for 8 hours. Duhhhhh! Difficult to have an Apnea event, when you are wide awake.

The problem is that no machine with only breathing information can determine if you are asleep or not. To definitely determine sleep, you need brain wave information. To determine sleep stage, you need eye movements and ECG. Unfortunately, these are not available in current technology APAP machines.

Walter W. Olson, Ph.D., P.E.
Professor Emeritus
02-11-2016 06:23 PM
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jn20info Offline

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Posts: 6
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Machine: 3B Resmart Auto
Mask Type: Nasal pillows
Mask Make & Model: Resmed P10
Humidifier: 3B Resmart Auto and Resmed Airwave Autoset 10
CPAP Pressure: 4
CPAP Software: Other Software

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Sex: Male
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Post: #4
RE: Are there any APAP Machines that record SLEEP HOURS
(02-11-2016 06:13 PM)0rangebear Wrote:  I actually have the opposite problem. When I lay awake unable to sleep with my APAP machine it actually show significant higher AHI than when I sleep through entire use period.

When I use Sleepyhead to do analysis. I see multiple apnea events at the beginning and end of each night that occur before I got to sleep and after I wake up.

This doesn't give me any confidence in the Data

HI Orangebear,
When you are laying awake, do you have your machine turned off? (Just clarifying).
I'm laying awake, with machine going, and mask & hose connected, eyes closed and waiting on sleep to envelope me. I know from experience, that laying awake, and then only connecting & turning on machine, just before sleep envelopes you, will result in higher AHI index, especially if this practice is repeated, 2 or more times, during the night.
02-11-2016 06:59 PM
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jn20info Offline

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Posts: 6
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Machine: 3B Resmart Auto
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Mask Make & Model: Resmed P10
Humidifier: 3B Resmart Auto and Resmed Airwave Autoset 10
CPAP Pressure: 4
CPAP Software: Other Software

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Sex: Male
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Post: #5
RE: Are there any APAP Machines that record SLEEP HOURS
G
(02-11-2016 06:23 PM)wolson Wrote:  
(02-11-2016 06:05 PM)jn20info Wrote:  I have googled all main branded APAP's, but are yet to find an APAP machine, that records your Sleep therapy statistics, on actual SLEEP hours. The majority base their statistics on compliance hours, which is subject to statistical error. Example: Apnea patients with insomnia. Last night, I lay awake for 8 hours. Resulting statistics, show I had a perfect AHI score for 8 hours. Duhhhhh! Difficult to have an Apnea event, when you are wide awake.

The problem is that no machine with only breathing information can determine if you are asleep or not. To definitely determine sleep, you need brain wave information. To determine sleep stage, you need eye movements and ECG. Unfortunately, these are not available in current technology APAP machines.

HI Wolson,
I did come across an Apnea machine, that advertised, it recorded actual sleep hours, (from real-time diagnosis of breathing pattern only). The problem, is I did not bookmark the product, and cannot find that webpage (even if I use the correct keywording in a Google search). I thought it was a RESMED product. Perhaps, it was the Aircurve 10 CS (ASV therapy). Perhaps, it was false advertising - Who knows?
(This post was last modified: 02-11-2016 07:15 PM by jn20info.)
02-11-2016 07:10 PM
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HermannTheGerman Offline

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Post: #6
RE: Are there any APAP Machines that record SLEEP HOURS
I have an asv machine and I can tell by the wave form of the flow rate if I have been sleeping or not.
When I am awake, the wave form is sinus shaped.
When I fell to sleep, the wave form gets more edgy with a small flat area at the 0 line.
02-11-2016 07:29 PM
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0rangebear Offline

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Machine: ResMed AirSence 10
Mask Type: Other
Mask Make & Model: Amara View
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CPAP Software: ResScan SleepyHead

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Sex: Male
Location: Brighton Colorado

Post: #7
RE: Are there any APAP Machines that record SLEEP HOURS
(02-11-2016 06:59 PM)jn20info Wrote:  
(02-11-2016 06:13 PM)0rangebear Wrote:  I actually have the opposite problem. When I lay awake unable to sleep with my APAP machine it actually show significant higher AHI than when I sleep through entire use period.

When I use Sleepyhead to do analysis. I see multiple apnea events at the beginning and end of each night that occur before I got to sleep and after I wake up.

This doesn't give me any confidence in the Data

HI Orangebear,
When you are laying awake, do you have your machine turned off? (Just clarifying).
I'm laying awake, with machine going, and mask & hose connected, eyes closed and waiting on sleep to envelope me. I know from experience, that laying awake, and then only connecting & turning on machine, just before sleep envelopes you, will result in higher AHI index, especially if this practice is repeated, 2 or more times, during the night.

I am lying awake with the machine on attempting to go to sleep. sometime with a movie or music
02-11-2016 07:40 PM
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trish6hundred Offline

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Post: #8
RE: Are there any APAP Machines that record SLEEP HOURS
Hi jn20info,
WELCOME! to the forum.!
Hang in there for more answers to your question and much success to you with your CPAP therapy.

trish6hundred
02-11-2016 08:25 PM
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archangle Offline
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Post: #9
RE: Are there any APAP Machines that record SLEEP HOURS
Some of the machines make attempts to tell when you fall asleep and not apply full pressure until then, but I don't think it's really reliable. See "SmartStart" and "SensAwake." I don't think any of them actually record "sleep hours."

A number of people think they can tell when they are and aren't awake by looking at the airflow waveforms. I don't think everyone gives clear signals like that in their breathing patterns, and nobody's figured out a good way to automate the process. Or even done studies to see that they are actually correct.

Get the free SleepyHead software here.
Useful links.
Click here for information on the main alternative to CPAP.
If it's midnight and a DME tells you it's dark outside, go and check it yourself.
02-11-2016 08:53 PM
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eseedhouse Online

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Post: #10
RE: Are there any APAP Machines that record SLEEP HOURS
(02-11-2016 06:05 PM)jn20info Wrote:  I have googled all main branded APAP's, but are yet to find an APAP machine, that records your Sleep therapy statistics, based on actual SLEEP hours.

You are searching for the non existent. No machine can know when you are actually sleeping based only on your airflow, which is all they can measure. You can only tell that by examining your brainwaves.

You aren't going to find any *PAP machine with electrodes that stick on your skull, so you are never going to find one that can be sure exactly when you are asleep or not. And in any event I don't think you don't really need to know this exactly. How do you feel in the morning when you wake up? This tells you most of what you need to know.

Ed Seedhouse
VA7SDH

I am neither a Doctor, nor any other kind of medical professional.

Actually you know, it is what it isn't.
02-11-2016 10:41 PM
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