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Did my machine overload me with CO2?
#1
Did my machine overload me with CO2?
I am in my first 30 days with therapy, I have a dreamstation and using the F20 airtouch mask. Last night a few hours into sleep things seemed weird, then I had to get up and use the restroom. I made it to the hall before passing out and putting my face through a closet door. Was really dizzy and hit the ground a couple more times before being able to get it under control. This has never happened before. Could my mask and machine not be set right and caused a low O2 situation because of a build up of co2? 

I visited my dme Thursday to try a full face dreamwear mask (didn't like it went back to the F20) , while there I asked about the mask "x" settings and was told they really don't do much but I could try different ones to see what it did with the f20 mask. 

The only change I've made is to set the x to 2 and flex to 1.  For something that isn't supposed to do much I feel like it did a lot. 

Any thoughts?
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#2
RE: Did my machine overload me with CO2?
(11-09-2019, 12:37 PM)Nwtravler Wrote: I am in my first 30 days with therapy, I have a dreamstation and using the F20 airtouch mask. Last night a few hours into sleep things seemed weird, then I had to get up and use the restroom. I made it to the hall before passing out and putting my face through a closet door. Was really dizzy and hit the ground a couple more times before being able to get it under control. This has never happened before. Could my mask and machine not be set right and caused a low O2 situation because of a build up of co2? 

I visited my dme Thursday to try a full face dreamwear mask (didn't like it went back to the F20) , while there I asked about the mask "x" settings and was told they really don't do much but I could try different ones to see what it did with the f20 mask. 

The only change I've made is to set the x to 2 and flex to 1.  For something that isn't supposed to do much I feel like it did a lot. 

Any thoughts?

That is serious and you're passing out should not have happened and needs to be investigated.

You have your body's breathing mechanism backwords.  It is NOT low oxygen that drives your need to breathe, it is a High CO2 level in the blood.  Chemoreceptors sense the high CO2 in the blood and when sensed will trigger a breath.    I have no data, no numbers, no events to base this on.  OSCAR could provide data for that.

Here is what happens to many when placed on CPAP.  I cannot say this is applying to you.  The CPAP machine (whatever model) has improved your breathing to a level that you have not experienced in a very, very long time.  As a result of this increased efficiency, your breathing has effectively washed out CO2 from your blood, which is logically a good thing, BUT it lowers the CO2 concentration to below the level that triggers a breath, so the result is that you stop breathing for a period of time until the CO2 level rises high enough to trigger a breath.  This is called Treatment-Emergent Apnea.

3 Actions.  

1. CONTACT YOUR DOCTOR today if possible.
2. Turn OFF your Flex.  This could remedy the issue and should cause no harm.  Flex can cause the Treatment-Emergent Central Apnea I mentioned above.
3. POST OSCAR charts of the night this occurred so the real experienced users here can review them.  I will be one of them
Fred Bonjour - Project Manager and Lead Tester for OSCAR - Open Source CPAP Analysis Reporter 
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#3
RE: Did my machine overload me with CO2?
(11-09-2019, 12:37 PM)Nwtravler Wrote: "I made it to the hall before passing out and putting my face through a closet door. Was really dizzy and hit the ground a couple more times before being able to get it under control. This has never happened before. Could my mask and machine not be set right and caused a low O2 situation because of a build up of co2?" 


I fully agree with every bit of what Bonjour said.   This response should not detract or distract from any of that at all.

To answer the question quoted above, and to possibly (or not) help you prepare for that chat with your Doc.  

You might scan the the thread where a Doctor member of the forum spoke what he felt was driven by "Hypercapnia" and also his description of feeling "Dyspneic" and then Google these two quoted terms.  

http://www.apneaboard.com/forums/Thread-EVIDENCE-OF-AIRFIT-P10-VENT-OBSTRUCTION-CAUSING-HYPERCAPNIA

WillSleep

INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.
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#4
RE: Did my machine overload me with CO2?
Thanks for the help, no time for a doctor right now I have to get on a plane in the morning.  I look like i lost a fight with Tyson (except I have my ears) I just did the OSCAR thing here is my screen shot, let me know if I did this correctly.  This happened about 1.5 hrs into the night, I didn't put it back on last night.  I will set the mask type to off and the Flex to 1 (lowest setting no off)

   
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#5
RE: Did my machine overload me with CO2?
set your min to 6, that is simply for comfort, 5 is too low IMHO.
Also no need to turn Flex off.  The centrals I was expecting to see are not there.
That still leaves the mystery of why you passed out.  

can you post a 5 min view around 2315,  I want to see the wave forms of your breathing then.
Fred Bonjour - Project Manager and Lead Tester for OSCAR - Open Source CPAP Analysis Reporter 
OSCAR

Download OSCAR
New to Apnea? Helpful tips to ensure success
Soft Cervical Collar
Mask Primer
Dealing with a DME
Organize Charts
Attaching Charts

INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.
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#6
RE: Did my machine overload me with CO2?
Hypercapnea results in an increased respiration rate, and we can't see what was going on during those events at the end of the session. To be honest, my impression is that your feinting episode was unrelated to CPAP use, and you should reconsider your trip and get a workup. Those symptoms should not be ignored for a work related obligation...they can wait. Your description sounds like a seriously low blood pressure when you got up, and the cause of that is only speculative.
Sleeprider
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INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.
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#7
RE: Did my machine overload me with CO2?
Another alternative to consider is benign paroxysmal positional vertigo (BPPV). This is caused by crystals (otoliths) forming in the semi-circular canals of the ear. It can have just the effect you describe - a feeling of extreme dizziness and falling over violently. It's scary, but easily treated and not a serious condition provided you don't fall over / down stairs / in front of a bus. If you do have BPPV you shouldn't travel until it's cleared up.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benign_par...al_vertigo

One good treatment: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epley_maneuver
DeepBreathing
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INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.
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#8
RE: Did my machine overload me with CO2?
Another thing to think about. Are you on any type of sleep med such as lunesta? My wife had issues with "passing out" and falling usually in the midnight to 3 am range which we eventually tracked down to being caused by the med. Once she got off the med, which we asked why she had been on it so long, the falls stopped. It is been almost 6 months now without a fall (not counting tripping over the cat).

Another discussion item with the doc which you really need to see.
Homer

Advisory Members serve as an "Advisory Committee" to help shape Apnea Board's rules & policies. Monitors are also Advisory Members, just with Extra Work assigned.

Membership in the Advisory Members group does not imply medical expertise or qualification for advising Sleep Apnea patients concerning their treatment.
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#9
RE: Did my machine overload me with CO2?
I'll say your circumstance is likely not the same as mine, but this past February the blood pressure meds I was on caused BP to go too low and I fainted. I ending up in the ER after falling to the floor at home. Me personally, any fainting spell gets urgent medical attention regardless of cause. Hope you get through this safe.
Dave

I'm not a doctor in real or fictional life. My posts include opinions based upon user experience regarding CPAP therapy and should not be considered medically professional direction or advice.


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#10
RE: Did my machine overload me with CO2?
I think that it is risky to blame CPAP or Sleep Apnea for all health problems. I experienced a full blackout about a year ago, and consulted my primary care physician. After extensive testing, he determined that my problem was an intermittent form of Atrial Fibrillation . Since then I have undergone a cardiac pacemaker implant and have had no blackout recurrences, though I do continue having AFIB. My pacemaker controls the problem. I suggest conferring with your primary care doctor regarding the experience.

TheDuke
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