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Do I really need Sleep Apnea Test in order to use CPAP machine?
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Galactus Offline

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Post: #11
RE: Do I really need Sleep Apnea Test in order to use CPAP machine?
(12-18-2014 08:19 PM)Destin Wrote:  
(12-18-2014 07:28 PM)Mike1953 Wrote:  What makes you think you need a VPAP machine and not a CPAP machine? Do you even know what a VPAP machine does? How do you know you have OSA's without a sleep study even one home study? It's like putting the cart before the horse IMHO!
Thanks for the response Mike,
The reason I came to this forum is because I do not know answers to most of the questions.

(12-18-2014 08:19 PM)Destin Wrote:  Maybe I've chosen wrong forum as I was not aware I had to graduate from OSA academy in order to post questions, sorry.

You don't but that you bought a VPAP with no real data shows you don't know enough to have immediately bought a machine. Don't take that the wrong way, it's just how it is.

(12-18-2014 08:19 PM)Destin Wrote:  To your first question, I thought that vpap was better, more advanced version of cpap. I am new to this so I could be wrong.

It is if you need it, it isn't if you don't. You could buy a semi trailer with a 40 foot box but if you're moving a refrigerator would it be prudent? You could put an electric fence around your house, along with a mine field, and a moat, but if you're trying to keep the squirrels out would it be prudent?

(12-18-2014 08:19 PM)Destin Wrote:  To me it was like buying a car. I thought I bought one with auto transmission versus manual.

It's not.
Would you buy a car with no license or no idea how to drive?

(12-18-2014 08:19 PM)Destin Wrote:  As far as the other question, wont vpap still help me breath while i sleep?

Yes, but so will a hospital ventilator and a crew of 3 nurses, why didn't you get that?

(12-18-2014 08:19 PM)Destin Wrote:  In other words, do I need a $2000 test in order to put on a hat when is 10 bellow zero outside?

What is along with having to put the hat on you have an underlying condition like COPD or some other heart issue, or some lung issue, will you know? That $2k study might save your life........ Or maybe you could just put a hat on, it's possible. I don't know and neither do you.

(12-18-2014 08:19 PM)Destin Wrote:  As far as conferming if I have OSA, what else would you say I have if :
I do snore all the time, it's so loud I wake up to sound of my own snoring.
When I sleep , day or night, I frequently stop breathing for 10-30 sec at the time, waking from it while grasping for air. All this confirmed by my wife who been there for the past 10 years.

Is she a Dr? An ENT? Anything? Or is she just assuming like you are? You know what happens when you assume?

(12-18-2014 08:19 PM)Destin Wrote:  My initial feeling is I may have to return my ResMed stuff before i get my home test done, but still, how much can I hurt myself using this machine out of the box?
It blows an air I obviously need and records my sleep pattern.
Again, sorry for stupid questions, and thank you all the forum members for your time.

I'm happy to help you and not judge, but be reasonable.

If everyone thinks alike, then someone isn't thinking.
Everyone knows something, together we could know everything.
12-18-2014 08:34 PM
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Ghost1958 Offline

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Post: #12
RE: Do I really need Sleep Apnea Test in order to use CPAP machine?
Having had a two sleep tests one lab and one home fail to diagnose my wife with but more than mild sleep apena due to her not being able to sleep long enough on either test and then only light catnaps, when I know as your wife seems to by sleeping with her she has at least as bad SA as I do and her blowing 6 7 8 AHI on a apap machine until we got the settings tweaked I unlike some maybe sort of get your drift.

That said. She did have two sleep tests that at min ruled out Central Apena and confirmed what I already knew which was she had Obstructive due to her constant struggling to breath. IMO you need at least one sleep study to rule out CA or Complex Apena.

Im pretty sure though I havent had one that the machine you have can be set to run as a cpap apap bipap or autosv. So I believe you can choose the mode to treat what you have with it. The trick is to know if you have centrals or complex apena vs Obstructive only. The machine cant tell you that though in a pinch if she knows what shes looking at your wife probably could if shes willing to watch you sleep an entire night.

Pressures you can titrate youself with a data capable auto machine of any type and software better than a one night sleep lab titration. Thats just a plain fact.

But you may have bought a much more advanced machine than you need and paid the cost to get it when a cheaper auto cpap could have been all that was needed.

Anyway we all have to learn and I believe the machine you have can be set to run in any one of the modes you need it too but honestly unless there is a good reason that you cant have a least a home test to rule out Central Apnea and such I would suggest you have one done for that reason alone.

Runniing that machine in the wrong mode for the type of Apena you have wont help you because the different modes of operation are to treat different types of Apnea. Example a plain cpap or apap wont treat Central Apnea.
12-18-2014 08:56 PM
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Destin Offline

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Post: #13
RE: Do I really need Sleep Apnea Test in order to use CPAP machine?
Thanks for the valuable input Galactus,
Sleep study is expensive, home test is my only option but from what I read,it takes weeks to complete.
I figured if I can get most of the info/help from just using machine itself, then I save time and money.
As far as other machines, what's different or better in BiPAP vs S9 Auto BiLevel ?
or Bi-flex vs BiLevel
Sorry its hard to understand the difference/benefit from just looking at two machines online.
Thanks

(12-18-2014 08:25 PM)Galactus Wrote:  A VPAP is a nice machine if you need it. An Autoset or a BiPAP might have been a better choice. If you had a sleep study you would have a better starting point.
Might I ask why you don't want to get a sleep study?
12-18-2014 08:56 PM
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Ghost1958 Offline

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Post: #14
RE: Do I really need Sleep Apnea Test in order to use CPAP machine?
(12-18-2014 08:56 PM)Destin Wrote:  Thanks for the valuable input Galactus,
Sleep study is expensive, home test is my only option but from what I read,it takes weeks to complete.
I figured if I can get most of the info/help from just using machine itself, then I save time and money.
As far as other machines, what's different or better in BiPAP vs S9 Auto BiLevel ?
or Bi-flex vs BiLevel
Sorry its hard to understand the difference/benefit from just looking at two machines online.
Thanks

(12-18-2014 08:25 PM)Galactus Wrote:  A VPAP is a nice machine if you need it. An Autoset or a BiPAP might have been a better choice. If you had a sleep study you would have a better starting point.
Might I ask why you don't want to get a sleep study?



I was diagnosed with a home test. The home tests take one night here maybe two someplace else but not weeks or even a week, and are very simple. You pick up the little unit put it on sleep with it on and take it back the next day.
12-18-2014 09:01 PM
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Mike1953 Offline

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Post: #15
RE: Do I really need Sleep Apnea Test in order to use CPAP machine?
It appears that you still don't understand from your replies. Get a sleep study first! That will get you started in the correct direction. If not your just wasting your money and time and that of those here that would love to help you. Everyone here says get a study first get it! The folks here are very helpful and knowledgeable on all aspects of XPAP.

For free Medicare assistance for your state check out this page. http://www.seniorsresourceguide.com/directories/National/SHIP/
or here http://www.medicareinteractive.org/
12-18-2014 09:05 PM
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Destin Offline

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Post: #16
RE: Do I really need Sleep Apnea Test in order to use CPAP machine?
(12-18-2014 09:01 PM)Ghost1958 Wrote:  I was diagnosed with a home test. The home tests take one night here maybe two someplace else but not weeks or even a week, and are very simple. You pick up the little unit put it on sleep with it on and take it back the next day.
That's great news, the home test I was referring to took 1 night too , but then included shipping the test equipment back to the provider and after long study the results were mailed back to me. Sounded like min. 2 weeks turnaround. I'll check other providers. Perhaps local I can walk in and out.
thanks Ghost for this and previous post, you been very helpful!



I get it Mike, thanks!

(12-18-2014 09:05 PM)Mike1953 Wrote:  It appears that you still don't understand from your replies. Get a sleep study first! That will get you started in the correct direction. If not your just wasting your money and time and that of those here that would love to help you. Everyone here says get a study first get it! The folks here are very helpful and knowledgeable on all aspects of XPAP.
(This post was last modified: 12-18-2014 09:12 PM by Destin.)
12-18-2014 09:09 PM
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Destin Offline

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Post: #17
RE: Do I really need Sleep Apnea Test in order to use CPAP machine?
It took me a while but I understand now that i do need the sleep test.
Not bad after only <hour on forum.
I'll bee back after my test is in.
Returning S9 tomorrow.
Thanks everyone!
Great Forum, keep it up, Merry Christmas!

(12-18-2014 08:33 PM)trish6hundred Wrote:  Hi Destin,
WELCOME! to the forum.!
A sleep study will tell you how severe your sleep apnea is or if you have it at all.
It will also give you a starting or titrated pressure to better help you as to where your machine should be set.
Hang in there for more suggestions and much success to you.
12-18-2014 09:16 PM
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justMongo Offline

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Post: #18
RE: Do I really need Sleep Apnea Test in order to use CPAP machine?
I'm going to duck the OP question.

I'll just add that a VPAP auto can run like an Autoset if the PS is set low. Say, PS=2, then it's like an Autoset with EPR turned on.

INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.
12-18-2014 09:36 PM
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Peter_C Offline

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Post: #19
RE: Do I really need Sleep Apnea Test in order to use CPAP machine?
The primary reason to see a sleep doc and be tested is to make sure there is not something else/different wrong with you. That said, many primary care doctors put their patients on an 'APAP' (A CPAP that can change pressures based on your breathing patterns, and, over time can figure out automagically the best pressure to treat you) The S9 Autoset is an example of such a device.

OAs - Obstructive Apneas - throat tissue relaxing, base of tongue, Mr Flappy too long, many other possible reasons creating an obstruction that doesn't clear until you partially awaken.

CAs - Central Apneas - basically your brain forgot to tell you to breathe.

And then there are multiple types of 'complex apnea(s) to possibly consider - if you have simple OSA, a good auto-machine may well solve your issues.

After roughly 12+ years on CPAP then bi-level, I started having greater than 50% CAs, and now am on an ASV machine (I've had both nose and throat surgery) and my degree of apnea is still considered life-threatening.

Some of what you are asking simply depends on what exactly is wrong with you, and how severe the degree of apnea is for you.

I just recently got on Medicare after almost three years with no healthcare of any kind. So if that and $$ are the motives here, I can respect the desire to save and *trying* an auto machine may well be enough, but without testing, there is no way to know, and usually before testing a full medical work-up is done by someone (again, to rule out possible other issues).

I do wish to welcome you here, and I would encourage you to read as much as you are willing to here - you can see by my join date that while I've been a hosehead many years, my knowledge has only recently began to grow and improve, mostly thanks to this forum. It is hard to communicate well via writing only, and I can honestly assure you that none of the posters above me mean you any ill-will, or meant to 'bang on you'. Sometimes what is meant to come across is lost in how it was written.

In short - if there is a need, you possibly can hit a home run on your own with an auto unit, but you may only spend the bucks to learn that your apnea (if that indeed is the issue) is of a type the machine you have can not help with.

That is why if at all feasible, it is the soundest choice to first get a 'sleep study' done, and then go from there.

I am speaking for many others that we do not wish to make you feel displeased, and newbies are most welcome here~! I will add, that most of us, once we know what is wrong, have no real need for, or want to see either our sleep doc or DME ever again, but you need a script to 'legally' get new masks, etc - which means a once per year visit. My own sleep doc let's me do my own thing as long as I call in any changes so he can put them in my chart.

*I* am not a DOCTOR or any type of Health Care Professional. My thoughts/suggestions/ideas are strictly only my opinions.

"Only two defining forces have ever offered to die for you. Jesus Christ and the American Soldier. One died for your Soul, the other for your Freedom."
12-19-2014 12:37 AM
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archangle Offline
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Post: #20
RE: Do I really need Sleep Apnea Test in order to use CPAP machine?
(12-18-2014 07:34 PM)PaulaO2 Wrote:  Well, you have a VPAP, and this is primarily for the treatment of central apnea. It can be set to treat obstructive apnea I think but it is kind of like digging the hole for a mailbox post with a backhoe. And buying the machine first is like buying the backhoe to do just that one job. You really should have done the research first THEN bought the machine.

He bought the ResMed S9 VPAP Auto, I believe.

That is definitely NOT a central apnea machine. It's a bilevel. Bilevel usually doesn't help centrals much, but it might help a little. "Normal" Bilevel is mostly for people who have trouble exhaling against fixed CPAP pressure. It is more comfortable and may help aerophagia. The Auto is a plus vs. a fixed bilevel machine like the VPAP S.

The VPAP S/T and VPAP Adapt (ASV) machines are the machines for central apnea.

The S9 VPAP Auto is an excellent Auto bilevel machine.

A good sleep test and a good doctor reviewing the results is the best way.

You can probably figure out CPAP without the doctor. It's not rocket science, but it does take a lot of work, and you CAN screw it up. It's probably not actually harmful to you, but you can definitely make it not work for you. If you don't learn how to monitor it properly, you may still suffer from the harmful effects of apnea.

It's not necessarily as simple as getting an Auto CPAP machine, turning it on, and being cured. The Auto machine might find the right pressure on its own, but it might not. If nothing else, you'll probably adapt a lot better with good professional help.

The most important thing about working with a good doctor is to be sure you aren't suffering from something other than apnea. In particular, even if you do have apnea and use CPAP, be sure you don't get what I call "apnea blindness." That's where you blame everything on apnea and CPAP and miss some other medical condition. If you ignore, for instance, heart problems thinking it's just pain from the CPAP pressure, you could die from a heart attack.

Even doctors suffer from "apnea blindness."

Unfortunately, even if you do go to the CPAP doctor regularly, you may not get good care. We've fallen into the trap of assembly line and cash register medicine. Working with the doctor is good, but you really need to take a large part in learning to manage your own treatment. You'll often have to fight the doctor to get it right.

Short story, the sleep test is a good idea. You might be able to great it on your own, but it does take some knowledge to do that and the medical mafia doesn't make it easy to get the information.

Get the free SleepyHead software here.
Useful links.
Click here for information on the main alternative to CPAP.
If it's midnight and a DME tells you it's dark outside, go and check it yourself.
12-19-2014 01:11 AM
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