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Doctors say it is not reflux, what could it be?
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DocWils Offline

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Post: #11
RE: Doctors say it is not reflux, what could it be?
From where you describe it, it is probably air swallowing. This comes back up on you and I have experienced it more or less where you have (although I DO have a massive post nasal drip, and that is a separate feeling, very clearly "mucous-y"). If you also find yourself sort of making small blowing out actions from your mouth during the day then you are definitely having an air swallowing problem, as that is a reflexive reaction to it. Burping or feeling pressure at the bottom of your thorax or slight distension of the abdomen in the morning would also confirm this, but it is not necessarily going to present.
01-26-2013 05:50 AM
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Dolla Bill Offline

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Post: #12
RE: Doctors say it is not reflux, what could it be?
(01-26-2013 05:50 AM)wilorg Wrote:  From where you describe it, it is probably air swallowing. This comes back up on you and I have experienced it more or less where you have (although I DO have a massive post nasal drip, and that is a separate feeling, very clearly "mucous-y"). If you also find yourself sort of making small blowing out actions from your mouth during the day then you are definitely having an air swallowing problem, as that is a reflexive reaction to it. Burping or feeling pressure at the bottom of your thorax or slight distension of the abdomen in the morning would also confirm this, but it is not necessarily going to present.

What can I do about this?
01-26-2013 11:28 AM
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DocWils Offline

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Post: #13
RE: Doctors say it is not reflux, what could it be?
You tend to swallow more air through nose masks and pillows than mouth or combi-masks. So that is one way to combat it. But before you start switching masks, confirm that this is what is happening. Make sure your air moisturiser (sorry, I am having a senior moment and forget the English for Luft Befuechter) is correctly set for your needs (and will also reduce any mucous production), avoid milk and milk products after 6 pm (or completely, if you can) as they are mucous forming.

Do you either burp (or pass gas) a lot of feel you want to but can't? Try taking an Ovol before bed to absorb any excess gas you may take in (it doesn't always work, but for mild cases of air swallowing it may help). Other than that, alas, there is not a lot to against air swallowing. I happens automatically, and you probably did it for years anyway long before you went on the mask, but the forced pressure of the mask made it more prevalent.

Most everyone has a bit of post nasal drip, especially when they are lying down and the sinus starts to clear itself down the throat. So you tend to swallow it during the first bit of sleeping until a balance is reached. The problem is that nose masks and nasal pillows tend to push whatever mucous is there down the throat, and you start swallowing, along with the air. Once the swallow reflex is started, you tend to continue, also to clear away saliva, and so you swallow more air. It is a tough one to fix, I am sorry to say.
01-26-2013 02:31 PM
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Shastzi Offline

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Post: #14
RE: Doctors say it is not reflux, what could it be?
I sometimes take a Pepcid AC before bed time. I still vent off the gas in the morning but the nasty burning
is gone.

Wink
01-27-2013 10:54 AM
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Dolla Bill Offline

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Post: #15
RE: Doctors say it is not reflux, what could it be?
(01-26-2013 02:31 PM)wilorg Wrote:  You tend to swallow more air through nose masks and pillows than mouth or combi-masks. So that is one way to combat it. But before you start switching masks, confirm that this is what is happening. Make sure your air moisturiser (sorry, I am having a senior moment and forget the English for Luft Befuechter) is correctly set for your needs (and will also reduce any mucous production), avoid milk and milk products after 6 pm (or completely, if you can) as they are mucous forming.

Do you either burp (or pass gas) a lot of feel you want to but can't? Try taking an Ovol before bed to absorb any excess gas you may take in (it doesn't always work, but for mild cases of air swallowing it may help). Other than that, alas, there is not a lot to against air swallowing. I happens automatically, and you probably did it for years anyway long before you went on the mask, but the forced pressure of the mask made it more prevalent.

Most everyone has a bit of post nasal drip, especially when they are lying down and the sinus starts to clear itself down the throat. So you tend to swallow it during the first bit of sleeping until a balance is reached. The problem is that nose masks and nasal pillows tend to push whatever mucous is there down the throat, and you start swallowing, along with the air. Once the swallow reflex is started, you tend to continue, also to clear away saliva, and so you swallow more air. It is a tough one to fix, I am sorry to say.

I have a full-face mask and can try it.

Thanks for the advice on the Pepcid. I took, on doctor's orders four Prylosec every day, two at night and two in the morining with little results. Also Pepcid and several other proton pump inhibitors for a one year period. Only marginal help.

I am breathing pretty well most of the time. But I still have a little bit in my throat. Doctors say it is not phlegm, they think there is a small fold inside my throat near the voicebox.

The are advising me against any surgery. Small chance of success with my situation - I have no reflux, silent or otherwise.

I DO have some gas, but I am 69 yo.

Phooey I am going to go wax my old Cadillac, that always make sme feel better! .
01-27-2013 11:10 AM
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DocWils Offline

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Post: #16
RE: Doctors say it is not reflux, what could it be?
If there is a fold inside your throat, surgery is not advised unless it is extremely obstructive - there is little success with it. There have been some experiments with putting a plastic expander in such things to hold it stiff, but the results are still out - probably not any more successful than excision. What can help is digeridoo (proper playing technique, please, otherwise it doesn't work), which strengthens the throat tissue and develops a cyclical breathing pattern that seems to work in such situations and against apnoea as a whole. In one interesting but alas, solely statistical study (not double blinded), they looked at aborigines who had 40 cm or more necks (almost always bundled together with apnoea) - those who played the digeridoo did not suffer from apnoea, those who didn't did. Expanding it to look at other wind instruments, almost none of the traditional western instruments had the same effect - it is the cyclical breathing pattern and resistance needed to sustain air column that had the effect - only alp-horns had a similar, but lesser, effect.

PPIs need to have something to work against - if you do not suffer from acid stomach, they won't do anything. I would then back off from them, and only use them if you do experience real acid reflux.
01-27-2013 12:39 PM
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archangle Offline
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Post: #17
RE: Doctors say it is not reflux, what could it be?
Be careful with the PPIs and other modern acid fighters.

Doctors tend to hand them out like candy these days, but there are possible some serious side effects from long term use. It's probably worth the risk if you have significant reflux, but you shouldn't take the PPIs unless you have reflux or other problems without them.

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01-28-2013 08:07 AM
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Dolla Bill Offline

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Post: #18
RE: Doctors say it is not reflux, what could it be?
(01-28-2013 08:07 AM)archangle Wrote:  Be careful with the PPIs and other modern acid fighters.

Doctors tend to hand them out like candy these days, but there are possible some serious side effects from long term use. It's probably worth the risk if you have significant reflux, but you shouldn't take the PPIs unless you have reflux or other problems without them.

Did have a reflux problem that the Prylosec was helping. Dr. prescribed four times the normal dose, but he was monitoring me. When he found it did not help my throat condition, he had me taper down to none. Reflux came back. I am now on one Prylosec a day. Normal dose.

He is still monitoring me and has checked other medications I take to be sure there is no conflict.

I have actually had the throat condition about 3-4 years, or more. I wonder if it is related to the apnea?
01-28-2013 08:27 AM
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SPOUSE Offline

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Post: #19
RE: Doctors say it is not reflux, what could it be?
Apple cider vinegar and honey helps reflux and acidic tummy for me. Also Whole Foods in the USA sells apple cider vinegar tablets which also seem to work the same. I use whenever I feel the need, not on a regular basis. Was using Prilosec but stopped entirely. Also no longer eat or drink dairy products.

(01-28-2013 08:27 AM)Dolla Bill Wrote:  
(01-28-2013 08:07 AM)archangle Wrote:  Be careful with the PPIs and other modern acid fighters.

Doctors tend to hand them out like candy these days, but there are possible some serious side effects from long term use. It's probably worth the risk if you have significant reflux, but you shouldn't take the PPIs unless you have reflux or other problems without them.

Did have a reflux problem that the Prylosec was helping. Dr. prescribed four times the normal dose, but he was monitoring me. When he found it did not help my throat condition, he had me taper down to none. Reflux came back. I am now on one Prylosec a day. Normal dose.

He is still monitoring me and has checked other medications I take to be sure there is no conflict.

I have actually had the throat condition about 3-4 years, or more. I wonder if it is related to the apnea?
01-28-2013 01:32 PM
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