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Dog-Gone, dead car battery
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justMongo Offline

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Post: #1
Dog-Gone, dead car battery
So, I just headed out to go to the pharmacy.
I guess I let my car sit too many days. It tries to crank; but gives up with a whimper. That battery is only 1 year old; and I bet the plates are now sulfated.

Even worse, the way the car is parked, the hood is under shelving in the garage. No way to hook a charger to it -- has to be pulled out.

I think I need to go to a Marine battery.

INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.
12-10-2014 02:26 PM
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SuperSleeper Offline

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Post: #2
RE: Dog-Gone, dead car battery
(12-10-2014 02:26 PM)justMongo Wrote:  I think I need to go to a Marine battery.

The "marine" deep cycle lead-acid 12 volt batteries are all I use in my two vehicles now. They are heavy duty with more lead and the lifespan is much longer than standard auto batteries. They're aren't "true" deep cycle, but rather a hybrid mix of standard and deep cycle, and therefore don't cost much more than $80-100 or so. Look for the ones with an amp-hour rating of 100 or more. If they have no amp-hour rating on the battery, they're probably cheap junk. The CCA (cold cranking amps) doesn't mean a whole lot except to judge how many amps the battery can deliver in a few seconds time to crank the engine.

In deep cycles, the amp-hour rating is what counts. An additional benefit is that if you keep the marine battery in relatively good condition, after it's normal 3-4 year lifespan, you can keep in your garage, charge it every other month or so, and use it to run your CPAP machine in emergencies. I use a "BatteryMinder Charger/Maintainer/Desulfator System" (about $50 on Amazon) to keep mine topped off and for desulfation. It's a trickle charger with an automatic desulfation mode.

My dad keeps one attached to his auto battery just about all the time the car is stored in the garage - that system will not harm a battery - but you do need to make sure your water levels are topped off in the battery, as any charging will cause some of the liquid to evaporate and you never want the level to go at or below the "fins" in the battery. Some claim that you can put a dead, sulfated 12 volt batter on one of those BatteryMinders for about week or so and it can come back to life.

A lot of short trips around town will run down a good battery unless you keep it charged up. If a 12 volt lead-acid battery is deep-discharged too many times and is allowed to remain in a discharged state, it can ruin the storage capacity over time. Could be that your alternator is going bad perhaps, (it's responsible for producing electricity and charging the battery while the engine is running). I've heard it's always good on a car in general to get up to highway speeds for several minutes every few days, and that helps with keeping the battery charged up.

Here's one similar to the ones I use in my cars:

[Image: 0060538802282_500X500.jpg]

For my cheapie solar panel system, I use 2 Trojan (real) 6 volt deep cycles, hooked up in series to make a total of 12 volts, like this:

[Image: s420862371643073564_p83_i2_w275.jpeg]

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INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.

12-10-2014 02:49 PM
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archangle Offline
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Post: #3
RE: Dog-Gone, dead car battery
Be careful about using "deep cycle" batteries in a car.

Deep cycle batteries last longer under the specific condition that you discharge them deeply. They won't necessarily last longer in "normal" usage, including cases where the battery discharges on its own, rather than being discharged by an external load.

My strategy the past few decades has been to buy a fairly cheap battery rather than anything "special" and expensive and just replace it right away when it starts showing problems.

You can just "watch" the battery and figure out when it's showing its age, but a battery tester can be a big help in checking its health. Get the old "mechanical" type tester that puts a heavy load on it and learn how to use it.

Get the free SleepyHead software here.
Useful links.
Click here for information on the main alternative to CPAP.
If it's midnight and a DME tells you it's dark outside, go and check it yourself.
12-10-2014 05:38 PM
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justMongo Offline

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Post: #4
RE: Dog-Gone, dead car battery
This is not a battery age problem. It's a Mongo age thing. My car sits too long. When it does get out, it's only for short trips.
That's a big Interstate battery, group 65, that's not very old. But, that's its second deep discharge. So, I figure it's finished.
I'll get AAA to pull the car out and jump it tomorrow. Then I'll take it for a new battery.
I'm thinking about putting it on the Battery Tender Junior Battery Charger/Maintainer plugged in through the AUX power socket in the dash.
($28 bucks from Amazon.) At 750 milliAmps max, it should be able to Push charge into the battery through the AUX socket.

I used an Optima Yellow top in the car I had before with good results. Self discharge on their spiral cell AGMs is very low.
Thing is, modern cars pull current even when shut off.

I think the Marine batteries are a good compromise -- they have thicker plates.

INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.
12-10-2014 06:07 PM
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GrammaBear Offline

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Post: #5
RE: Dog-Gone, dead car battery
My husband drives an economical Nissan Versa back and forth to work, about 25 miles each way. His car is a 2007. Monday morning he got into his vehicle and turned the key and all it did was "groan". In all fairness we thought maybe the car got too cold and the battery was too old to turn over. He called a mechanic friend of his who came to our house and looked at the car. Turns out his car needs a new fuel pump which nobody around here wants to do. It took a number of phone calls before he found someone who can fix his car - I hope. In the meantime he is driving my car to work and I miss my wheels. Sad
12-10-2014 09:46 PM
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Ghost1958 Offline

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Post: #6
RE: Dog-Gone, dead car battery
Here is a trick that will bring most batteries back to life. Pour the acid out of the battery. Pour vinegar in and shake it then let it set for a while. Dump the vinegar out. Pour in distilled water, shake, dump. Fill with new acid.


Have brought back car batteries and motorcycle batteries this way that lasted another year to year and half. Little messy but with the price of batteries if I can get a an extra year out of one its worth it.

Smart tenders are good also. Stop charging at full charge and monitor until voltage drop is below 12 then tops the battery up and stops charging again. Motorcycle batteries that usually last a year can be stretched to a five year life using one. Probably because bike charging systems are notorious for never bringing a battery to true full charge.
12-10-2014 10:08 PM
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justMongo Offline

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Post: #7
RE: Dog-Gone, dead car battery
Too much work Ghost. My back isn't going to like me lifting a car battery; let alone shaking it.
Plus, around here, there's no place to dump battery acid.

My life philosophy on car batteries has been to put a new one in the first time it cranks slow.

Since I've retired; and driving very little, it seems a shame to toss a nearly new battery.

I think the best solution now is a new battery and a Smart Tender.

INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.
12-10-2014 11:33 PM
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Ghost1958 Offline

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Post: #8
RE: Dog-Gone, dead car battery
(12-10-2014 11:33 PM)justMongo Wrote:  Too much work Ghost. My back isn't going to like me lifting a car battery; let alone shaking it.
Plus, around here, there's no place to dump battery acid.

My life philosophy on car batteries has been to put a new one in the first time it cranks slow.

Since I've retired; and driving very little, it seems a shame to toss a nearly new battery.

I think the best solution now is a new battery and a Smart Tender.

Yeah my back dont take picking it up and shaking which is why it gets kicked around with my foot LOL. It is messy no doubt. And I dont do that often but when the bank account says no new battery and the one I have is kaput then its kick it over dump it, kick it upright fill it. repeat LOL.

Smart Tenders are great little gadgets for sure and not expensive. I have one and only do the battery CPR if Im in a total pinch LOL.

You would think they would at least pro rate the battery you have since its only a year old.
12-10-2014 11:51 PM
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SuperSleeper Offline

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Post: #9
RE: Dog-Gone, dead car battery
I would not use a true deep cycle battery in a car either. I'm talking about using the hybrid marine-type deep cycles. They have ratings for CCA (cold cranking amps for starting an engine, sometimes called MCA or Marine Cranking Amps) and also carry an amp-hour rating for deep cycle use. The one in the picture above says "845 MCA" for instance. But that picture isn't exactly what I get, since it appears to be "maintenance free", which I didn't notice when posting that pic. I wouldn't get one of those, but rather the type where you can pop the covers off to check and add distilled water as necessary.

Since they are a cross between auto battery and deep cycle, they can be used for cars. If the battery doesn't have a decent CCA or MCA rating that will turn over the size of engine in your particular car, then no, I wouldn't use it on a car. But most of the big box stores sell the hybrid marines, which can be used for both applications. When selecting one of these, generally the higher the amp-hour rating, the better the quality of the battery.

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INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.

12-11-2014 12:23 AM
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justMongo Offline

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Post: #10
RE: Dog-Gone, dead car battery
I believe EverStart is a Walmart battery.
The one I have is (in group 65 form factor):
[Image: GetScaledImage.ashx?pn=MT-65&mw=...p;amp;sz=L]
They make an AGM also.

My engine is the Ford 4.6 Liter V8 with a gear reduction starter that has permanent magnet field poles. An older car without all the electronic engine controls might have fired up yesterday. Now it has to crank enough to figure cam position and timing.

I'll go with a marine battery if I can find one.

INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.
12-11-2014 07:24 AM
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