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Dumb Question of effect of Cpap on NON OSA
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Daso Offline

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Post: #1
Dumb Question of effect of Cpap on NON OSA
I had a visit with a doctor who asked to look at my sleep report. I had been diagnosed with mild sleep apnea AHI of 6. The doctors comment was that although he believed in sleep apnea and it's potential negative effects, he questioned whether I met any of the requirements (I meet none of the general criteria). Anyway, the comment he made was that "why is it that almost all people who go to a sleep lab get diagnosed with sleep apnea" got me thinking. Let's say one doesn't have OSA or had been misdiagnosed, but they use a Cpap. Would it have any potential negative effect such as doing the opposite of how it helps one with OSA. This might sound dumb to many, but although I have generally felt better while using cpap, 2 months in and I'm getting bouts of tiredness again and my nightly AHI on my S9 almost never exceeds .8 even on nights where my leak rate goes up to 24ml. Most nights my leak rate at 7ml or less and AHI of .1-.4. Thanks
03-13-2015 08:55 PM
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truetopath Offline

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Post: #2
RE: Dumb Question of effect of Cpap on NON OSA
I don't see how using air to keep an airway open when it is prone to relaxing could have any ill effect. Just my opinion.
03-13-2015 09:07 PM
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OMyMyOHellYes Offline

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Post: #3
RE: Dumb Question of effect of Cpap on NON OSA
(03-13-2015 08:55 PM)Daso Wrote:  I had a visit with a doctor ... the comment he made was that "why is it that almost all people who go to a sleep lab get diagnosed with sleep apnea"

Well, duh, Doc. Not everyone goes to a sleep lab just for the fun of a sleep study. All those wires, gummy stuff stuck in your hair, all the interruptions during the night .... Only folks suspected by their doctor of apnea to start with get sent to the sleep lab. Do you have most or all of the symptoms? Yes. Is there any other likely explanation of the symptoms? No. Then let's confirm that that is what we're looking at and figure out a treatment while we're there, if that's what we find.

And there may still be a lot of reasons to feel bad or sleepy even when PAP therapy is called for and properly used. I have arthritis in a knee and hip that sometimes keeps me from sleeping. Sometimes I wake up suddenly at 2:00 or 3:00 AM and my mind starts going about 180 mph with worry about things I need to accomplish in the next few days (or 290 kph for all y'all metric folks) and I can't get it dialed back down and go back to sleep. Blood sugar swings sometimes interrupt my sleep. Sometimes during the day I just get bored and then sleepy. Some folks are sleepy all the time from symptoms of depression. Maybe they're on other drugs that cause drowsiness or fatigue.
(This post was last modified: 03-13-2015 10:43 PM by OMyMyOHellYes.)
03-13-2015 10:04 PM
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archangle Offline
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Post: #4
RE: Dumb Question of effect of Cpap on NON OSA
(03-13-2015 08:55 PM)Daso Wrote:  I had a visit with a doctor who asked to look at my sleep report. I had been diagnosed with mild sleep apnea AHI of 6. The doctors comment was that although he believed in sleep apnea and it's potential negative effects, he questioned whether I met any of the requirements (I meet none of the general criteria). Anyway, the comment he made was that "why is it that almost all people who go to a sleep lab get diagnosed with sleep apnea" got me thinking. Let's say one doesn't have OSA or had been misdiagnosed, but they use a Cpap. Would it have any potential negative effect such as doing the opposite of how it helps one with OSA. This might sound dumb to many, but although I have generally felt better while using cpap, 2 months in and I'm getting bouts of tiredness again and my nightly AHI on my S9 almost never exceeds .8 even on nights where my leak rate goes up to 24ml. Most nights my leak rate at 7ml or less and AHI of .1-.4. Thanks

There are quite a few warning signs of apnea. I think basically, not many people get sent to a sleep lab until it's obvious that the patient has sleep apnea. If anything, there are a lot of people who have apnea, but never get sent to the lab until it gets really bad and gets obvious.

Get the free SleepyHead software here.
Useful links.
Click here for information on the main alternative to CPAP.
If it's midnight and a DME tells you it's dark outside, go and check it yourself.
03-13-2015 11:47 PM
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TyroneShoes Offline

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Post: #5
RE: Dumb Question of effect of Cpap on NON OSA
If you look at this as a sliding scale rather than absolute black or white (you have SA; you don't have SA), everyone "has" SA, because no one does not have an occasional event now and then; respiration is not ever perfect for anyone for thousands of breaths in a row every night. We are all somewhere on that scale, and none of us are continually, firmly up against "zero events" or "every single breath" being associated with an event. We are all somewhere in between.

The question then is when is respiration so problematic due to SA events that is is medically advised to treat it. So there has to be a threshold, and the agreed-upon threshold is an AHI of 5, because having 5 or fewer event an hour is considered either normal or not medically an issue, or possibly both.

So you are right on the line, and an AHI of 6 is a very mild condition. Should it be treated? That is what the threshold is for, so while the improvement for you would never be as dramatic as for someone like me, who has an untreated AHI of 56, it is still medically advised, and most insurance agrees.

Even at 6, the advantages probably outweigh any disadvantages, because the disadvantages are few, and it does not seem that there could be disadvantages that might be harmful (discuss with a professional).

Were I in your shoes, I would continue the therapy. But you have the luxury of not being in a bad situation if you choose to take a nap without the xPAP on occasion, or if you forget or even forgo the mask on a particular night.

Also, how you might feel may have nothing at all to do with whether the therapy is working or not. It absolutely does not have anything to do with being an indicator in my case, because I never had symptoms that were felt; I was only told I stopped breathing at night. A treated AHI of 0.8 is absolute assurance that the therapy is working, and working well. The symptoms you have may have nothing at all to do with SA, but being in therapy that is proven to be working does lean towards helping to prove that SA is not at the root of your issue, essentially eliminating it as the cause, and that other avenues should likely be examined.
03-14-2015 12:12 AM
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OpalRose Offline

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Post: #6
RE: Dumb Question of effect of Cpap on NON OSA
Daso,
I don't understand your Doctors' comments. He obviously doesn't know much about Sleep Apnea.
More importantly, is this the same Doctor that sent you for a study in the first place, or a different doctor? Find a Doc that supports you.
If your untreated apnea was 6 and with treatment you are at .8, then those numbers say it all!
Your question is not dumb, and I don't see anything negative with continued therapy.
Good luck to you. We are always here to help.
OpalRose

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(This post was last modified: 03-14-2015 06:04 AM by OpalRose.)
03-14-2015 06:03 AM
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DariaVader Offline
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Post: #7
RE: Dumb Question of effect of Cpap on NON OSA
you have a recorded AHI on one night of 6. that is above 5, and you have symptoms. How well did you sleep that night? Is it a true representation? Were there other RERA events? What was the RDI? How low did O2 go? CPAP is a way better alternative than dipping O2 sats, and frequent awakenings whether those are apnea or rera!

That said, of course there are effects. Even very low pressures have been shown to increase renovascular resistance. (but not whether that equalizes out over time) Eye pressure can be affected leading to glaucoma risk, I am certain there is more. If you really dopn't have apnea, you really shouldnt use CPAP. However, you need a doc that understands apnea to say that --- IMO your test results show that you *do* have it.

هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه
Tongue Suck Technique for prevention of mouth breathing:
  • Place your tongue behind your front teeth on the roof of your mouth
  • let your tongue fill the space between the upper molars
  • gently suck to form a light vacuum
Practising during the day can help you to keep it at night

هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه
03-14-2015 11:54 AM
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retired_guy Offline

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Post: #8
RE: Dumb Question of effect of Cpap on NON OSA
I tested low. So for that particular test on that particular night I was "marginally sleep apneac?" Except for the symptoms: The falling asleep behind the wheel, the snoring, the high blood pressure, etc...... I think what it points out is whether diagnosed as small medium or large, if a person needs therapy to keep their cute little body functioning properly, then thank goodness for the opportunity.

It also points out that everyone is different. Except me of course. I'm not different. I'm the same.
03-14-2015 12:22 PM
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OpalRose Offline

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Post: #9
RE: Dumb Question of effect of Cpap on NON OSA
(03-14-2015 12:22 PM)retired_guy Wrote:  I tested low. So for that particular test on that particular night I was "marginally sleep apneac?" Except for the symptoms: The falling asleep behind the wheel, the snoring, the high blood pressure, etc...... I think what it points out is whether diagnosed as small medium or large, if a person needs therapy to keep their cute little body functioning properly, then thank goodness for the opportunity.

It also points out that everyone is different. Except me of course. I'm not different. I'm the same.


Hi retired_guy,
You should change your name to "I'm not different"
Except, you should google the color PUCE.....there is a color wheel with many different shades for Puce which you could pick from....then you would be different.
Ha, ha, just teasing!
Rolling laugh
OpalRose



Daso,
Wishing you well. Sleep-well
OpalRose

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03-14-2015 04:19 PM
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brianwood619 Offline

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Post: #10
RE: Dumb Question of effect of Cpap on NON OSA
Yeah, everyone enjoys going and having the sticky gooey sensors placed all over their head with all the wires just for giggles.....not!
03-14-2015 05:38 PM
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