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Electric Muscle Stimulation?
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manofsan Offline

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Post: #11
RE: Electric Muscle Stimulation?
What about these smaller new products like Provent, which are just adhesive strips with valves on them, to be fit over the nostrils? They're said to be less intrusive, and they look easier and more comfortable to sleep with at night.

I was also reading about how certain throat exercises might possibly help alleviate sleep apnea.


Anybody tried these and found them to work? What are the opinions?
09-21-2014 11:37 AM
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DocWils Offline

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Post: #12
RE: Electric Muscle Stimulation?
Provent will work on some types of less severe apnoea, but is ineffective against more severe cases. It is also considerably more expensive in the long run the a PAP machine. Trials in Zurich showed it to be not much better than the fakes they used as a control for testing.

The throat exercises are playing the digeridoo - if you search through this forum you will find it discussed more thoroughly. They are effective when combined with weight loss or against mild forms of OSA.
09-21-2014 12:54 PM
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Peter_C Offline

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Post: #13
RE: Electric Muscle Stimulation?
(09-21-2014 12:43 AM)manofsan Wrote:  What about laser-assisted uvulopalatoplasty (LAUP)?

I was just reading about this a few minutes ago, and it's said to be less stressful than other surgical procedures. Gee, I figure if some of my flesh is in my way, then it needs to be removed.

What is the anatomical/physiological difference between people who do suffer from sleep apnea and those who don't? Do some of us have slacker muscles in some places, or just more fatty folds of tissue in some places, or what?

Furthermore, I'm 44, and have been suffering from this for the past couple of years now. Why is it happening now, when I've never had the problem before? I assume it's because I'm getting ever fatter as I get older -- is that a reasonable conclusion to make?

You are going way past me at this point. My surgeries were done many years ago, and while I assume the procedures are better today, I bet the recovery is just as bad as it was back then.

To my knowledge, OSA is a condition that can be controlled to a great degree by use of a CPAP. But there is no 'cure' for it. Untreated OSA depending on how severe it is can (in time) prove fatal due mostly to failure of one or more organs.

I suddenly developed a heart issue, that after a lot of testing came down to being caused by severe OSA - as in life-threatening. Sadly (not a bragging point), I am a case study in some book. After many years of both CPAP and heart meds, my heart issue actually fixed itself. Basically my at rest heart rate was 122, it would not go down, even with Valium. Fast forward to today, my at rest heart rate is around 70 or so.

Being a hosehead is not so bad once you become used to it. Because I am a habit kind of guy, once I put my mask on, I am out within a few minutes.

*I* am not a DOCTOR or any type of Health Care Professional. My thoughts/suggestions/ideas are strictly only my opinions.

"Only two defining forces have ever offered to die for you. Jesus Christ and the American Soldier. One died for your Soul, the other for your Freedom."
09-21-2014 02:28 PM
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DocWils Offline

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Post: #14
RE: Electric Muscle Stimulation?
(09-21-2014 12:43 AM)manofsan Wrote:  What about laser-assisted uvulopalatoplasty (LAUP)?

I was just reading about this a few minutes ago, and it's said to be less stressful than other surgical procedures. Gee, I figure if some of my flesh is in my way, then it needs to be removed.

What is the anatomical/physiological difference between people who do suffer from sleep apnea and those who don't? Do some of us have slacker muscles in some places, or just more fatty folds of tissue in some places, or what?

Furthermore, I'm 44, and have been suffering from this for the past couple of years now. Why is it happening now, when I've never had the problem before? I assume it's because I'm getting ever fatter as I get older -- is that a reasonable conclusion to make?

The physiological difference you have, unless you have an extend uvula, is that you are fat, plain and simple. Without a full test to determine the type of SA and the cause of it, I can only guess, but since you say that you have experienced this condition with weight gain, then that is it, and it is not something that anyone else who's neck gets above 40 cm doesn't experience. 40 cm is the magic number.

The surgery you describe only works if the absolute cause is the length of the uvula and NOTHING else. Be very sure from your doc first that that is the case, because it is wasted money otherwise, and a lot of pain for nothing. Besides, it still has a low success rate. Even if it IS successful, if your SA is influenced by other factors, like weight or whatever, the surgery will have been less than useless.

Since you say that you never had this problem when thinner, the chance that the cause (and cure) is the length of your uvula is pretty small. Either way, get yourself fully checked out first and of course, make 100% sure what the base cause(s) of your SA is. My guess from the start is your weight, but there may a lot of other factors that are showing up now as you age (and 44 is old, sorry, son, but the body really starts taking revenge on you after 40).
09-21-2014 03:05 PM
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Galactus Offline

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Post: #15
RE: Electric Muscle Stimulation?
Please don't take this the wrong way but unfortunately this thread reeks to me. This thread is all about trying to find "the get out of jail free card", unfortunately there is none. There's no magic bullet here beyond the CPAP therapy. There's a lot of people talking about things that may work and or help but the only proven method so far is CPAP.

Just like weight loss for fat people. You can go get the surgery, and there is a 20%+ complication rate, and even after it's over you still have to completely change the way in which you eat and what you eat, and so you might as well have just done it the hard way avoided the permanent surgery and just lost the weight the right way. Same thing really applies here.

I mean hey you can go and do the "easy ways" first and once they are exhausted you can do it "the right way". But really sometimes the easy way comes out hard....

Just my 2 cents worth for someone who has been down the rabbit hole.

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09-21-2014 05:22 PM
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Peter_C Offline

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Post: #16
RE: Electric Muscle Stimulation?
One of my points; even with the loss of 80+ pounds it made no change to my apnea, pressure, anything related to OSA. Yes, I still have weight to lose (currently 317lbs) but even with the (older) throat surgery (did lower my pressure somewhat), nose surgery (really big help in nose breathing) - in my book, all we can do is treat the symptoms (with CPAP), it is not a cure, but rather an ongoing therapy for life. I use it and most nights are good, whereas *any* night I don't use my sleep machine will be bad, PERIOD!

Granted, I was (and still am) a very bad case, but while my weight did make matters worse, they were not the only, or even the leading cause of my OSA. Some people just get put together poorly? I know no other way the phrase it.

*I* am not a DOCTOR or any type of Health Care Professional. My thoughts/suggestions/ideas are strictly only my opinions.

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09-23-2014 10:57 PM
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archangle Offline
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Post: #17
RE: Electric Muscle Stimulation?
Look, it's pretty simple. Get CPAP or just give up and live with apnea. Or die with apnea.

EVERYTHING other than CPAP is basically quackery at this point in time.

Weight loss MIGHT help, but it's easier said than done and quite a few people have lost weight and not gotten an improvement. There are also a lot of apneacs who have been thin all their lives.

If you decide you're just going to lose weight, you're fooling yourself. Very few people succeed in losing weight and keeping it off. Don't lie to yourself. If you're going to go the weight loss route, just admit to yourself that you're simply refusing to treat your apnea.

Get CPAP, then lose the weight and see if you can do without CPAP later.

The surgery is a really bad option at this point. The surgery is painful, expensive, has a low success rate, and bad side effects.

Get the free SleepyHead software here.
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09-24-2014 04:52 AM
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Bompa Offline

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Post: #18
RE: Electric Muscle Stimulation?
There is a Simple and Effective Solution !!

Get Professional Medical Advice and live longer and healthier!

Just my 2 cents worth.

Sleep-well Coffee
(This post was last modified: 09-24-2014 09:24 AM by Bompa.)
09-24-2014 09:23 AM
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bwexler Offline

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Post: #19
RE: Electric Muscle Stimulation?
It totaly depends on the medical proffessional you find.
A surgeon's hammer is a scalpel you are a nail.

I saw a device on the news last night. It is implanted in the chest with a wired probe to detect breathing and an electrical stimulator wired under the skin to the throat to treat apnea.

I am not ready to be a guinea pig, but someone saw this thread and went out and invented the thing. It is currently be tested on actual people.
09-25-2014 11:41 AM
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surferdude2 Online

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Post: #20
RE: Electric Muscle Stimulation?
I wouldn't consider surgery based on the current success level and the possible downside. I wouldn't do the electrode implant either until I hear several people raving about it.

My sleep apnea is in the moderate range, AHI = 17 events usually.

Slightly Offtopic I did try a mandibular displacement device initially and it worked to suppress the apnea but introduced other issues that I couldn't tolerate. I think it would be great for those who can get along with the it. It's not complete quackery but there are quacks in the business. If you stick with a dentist that is well trained and certified in treating sleep apnea, you'll have the best shot at success and have recourse when needing further adjustments. You'll also pay more than the device would cost from someone less qualified who isn't allowed by law (U.S. law) to sell it for the purpose of treating sleep apnea but rather to address snoring.

I still use mine occasionally when I want to go totally bareback ( or is it barefront???commando??) and throw off all bonds and give my poor wrinkled up old face a rest. I sleep soundly that night and my face feels much better in the morning. My jaw is a bit sore for 15 mins. though. I can tolerate the jaw soreness but the drooling was something I will probably never be comfortable with since it causes me to require an unreasonable amount of time to fall asleep. YMMV
09-25-2014 01:48 PM
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